20th February 2018
[The high fat low carb conspiracy]
Some of you may remember I wrote a blog about Professor Tim Noakes being dragged in front of the Health Professionals Council of South Africa (HPCSA) last year to face charges of “Doing something quite bad, but we are not quite sure what – and we will keep changing the charges until we find something that sticks”.
The case centred around a tweet that Tim Noakes wrote several years ago, on a discussion forum. He was accused of providing a medical consultation – online. [The HPCSA had no guidelines on what constituted an online consultation]. Earlier in the hearing, which started way back in 2015, witnesses for the HPCSA said a consultation was required before any advice could be given or diagnosis made.
The tweets were:
The mother’s tweet read: “@ProfTimNoakes @SalCreed is LCHF eating ok for breastfeeding mums? Worried about all the dairy + cauliflower = wind for babies?? [sic]”
The mum obviously knew what LCHF was (real, nutritious food) & tweeted Noakes and his co-author of Real Meal Revolution. Noakes replied: “Baby doesn’t eat the dairy and cauliflower. Just very healthy high-fat breast milk. Key is to ween [sic] baby onto LCHF.
The primary accusation was that Professor Tim Noakes was guilty of serious professional misconduct. Really, to be struck off on the basis of one tweet, that tweet, and that’s it. The accusation was based on two questions:
Question One: does this constitute a medical consultation?
Question Two: if this is advice, is it dangerous or damaging?
Both accusations, plus a few others, were thrown out at the first hearing last April. Even though the HPCSA was acting as judge, jury, and executioner, as part of its own enquiry, set up by itself. So, they must have had a bloody weak case if the HPCSA itself couldn’t even convince itself that it was right!
You would think that would have been the end of it. But no. The HPCSA obviously feels that the HPCSA is completely incompetent, so it appealed its own decision. You can read in more detail the utter ridiculousness of what it going on here: http://foodmed.net/2018/02/noakes-hpcsa-appeal-evidence-dietitians-setup/
If this were not so Kafkaesque and strange, it would be funny. It is not funny because it is crystal clear that certain members of the HPCSA, who some would allege have significant financial conflicts of interest, are pursuing a vendetta against Professor Tim Noakes. Just as happened to the Australian Orthopaedic surgeon, Gary Fettke.
In Australia, Gary Fettke, was silenced by the Australian Health Practitioners Regulatory Authority (AHPRA) for daring to advise patients to eat fewer carbs and more fat – a High Fat Low Carb (HFLC) diet.
He had been struggling to operate on obese patients and wondered if anything could be done to help them lose weight. He found that the high fat low carb worked. His tale is both hilarious and deeply upsetting. His wife is now blogging on his behalf: http://www.nofructose.com/gary-fettke/
Following various hearings, Gary Fettke was warned not to give any more advice on diet. And, even if his views on HFLC become accepted medical practice, he will not be allowed to talk about them to any patient – ever. Which is perhaps the most stupid judgement in the history of any medical authority – and that takes some doing. A doctor unable to tell his patients about best medical practice.
Patient: “Tell me Dr Fettke, what do you think I should eat to help me lose weight and control my diabetes?”
Dr Fettke: “I am sorry I am not allowed to talk to you about such matters, for I am a mere orthopaedic surgeon who cannot understand such complex things. For that you must talk to a dietician.’’
Yes, really. Yes…really.
I watched MaryAnne Demasi ripped to shreds in Australia, losing her job at the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) for daring to produce and present two programmes, one supporting a high fat, low carb diet – the other criticising statins. There, are of course many others who have been attacked. Even me, although the attacks have been more ‘character assassination’ than any attempt to strike me off the medical register – so far.
You do not need to be a conspiracy theorist to be very deeply worried about the tactics used to silence anyone who dares to promote a high fat low carbohydrate diet. You don’t need to be a conspiracy theorist, because it is quite clear that there is conspiracy to silence anyone who dares stick their head over the parapet on this issue.
So, yes, I want to teach the world to sing… Sorry, got that wrong. I want to teach the world to sign a petition supporting Professor Tim Noakes and his battle in South Africa.
I also want to do what I can to keep this issue up there, in front of as many people as possible. Otherwise Professor Tim Noakes will be shredded, on made up charges, held in virtual secrecy. After which, the industry sponsored PR machine will get to work. ‘Tim Noakes guilty of professional misconduct for promoting high fat low carb diet in children.’ ‘Panel members warn of serious harm to children from Tim Noakes advice.’
A lie, as Winston Churchill once opined, is halfway round the world, before the truth has a chance to get its boots on. Let us shine a bit of light on the lie, before the starting gun fires.
Dr. Malcolm Kendrick 
I am amazed. I really thought the matter settled, thanks for telling us it is not. Just the same with John Yudkin on sugar. I am sure Tim Noakes is open to being wrong though he started high carb and his own body forced him to change tack, but let’s have the scientific proof.
I have signed. In my own small way I have been telling people about the dangers of statins and low fat diets – full of junk- for years. At least my GP seems to have seen the light. My one brush with statins was awful and the dietary advice from the consultant specialist in lipids was a disaster. I doubt he’d read a word outside of his prejudice and his being on advisory panels promoting statins. it’s more than a disgrace. Thanks Malcolm and keep up the good work.
Worth a share … I can’t help seeing the parallel with doctors who suggest that some of us need to take T3 – some of those have been hounded out of their profession.
Jxxx
Janet Thomas 01159819194
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Signed the petition immediately, and shared on Facebook. It’s an utter disgrace, and I sincerely hope Tim Noakes is completely and absolutely publicly exonerated and that he receives the grovelling apology he is entitled to.
Vendetta indeed. I have followed this not only on your blog but also on others. Am signing.
shared!
This is a prime issue for me, Malcolm. So-called scientists; acting in irrational ways just because the currently accepted (often wrongly) status quo is being challenged. I was recently appointed to a full-time post in an NHS hospital. The competition was open and a panel of four senior staff selected and appointed me.
Within one week of accepting the appointment, I was aware that the post was re-advertised in the identical manner. On checking with the human resources person who was my contact point, I was told that there was a need to appoint at least one other person. The clinical lead who would have been my supervisor was replaced with a different clinical lead, who was not a part of the interview panel.
Apparently, she did not like my thoughts as expressed via my blog, that the national training for my skill set was poor. Acting like the thought police, she refused to have me join the hospital. I have written to the CEO but no responses are just what I have come to expect. So personal opinion trumps professional opinion expressed to improve patient care. You could not make it up.
“You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.”
Winston Churchill
An honour to sign petition…
Look. what you are all failing to grasp is that we need sick people. Sick people are easier to control, probably wont live much past pension age (We’re in a pension crisis you know!) and will spend millions feeding into the various industries.
Imagine a world whereby dietary advice was LCHF. First off you would have a lot less overweight people. God forbid people started fasting as well – imagine the impact to the fast food industry. Then you would soon realise that diabetes has disappeared – gosh shock horror – Just think about all the people that rely on that industry for their livelihood. Down the line you would realise that Oncology is taking a slapping next, Cancer cells need glucose to survive – a Ketogenic diet and fasting periods kills cancer cells. Imagine the massive loss to that industry as well.
It’s no wonder the powers that be have done what they have. There are far too many people who have a vested interest in keeping us sick to let any hope of the truth get any further past the notion of a silly idea.
I am amazed that they haven’t come for you yet Mal.
@Mike Smith – this is what my husband keeps saying – that there are so many reasons to keep everyone sick and it’s all part of ‘The Plan’! We’ve had first hand experience of the way elderly people are treated in the NHS with both his parents and one of mine. They are put on cocktails of drugs which, as we know, are often to deal with the adverse effects of previous ones, with little regard to the fact that elderly people aren’t able to synthesise the drugs which build up in their system causing, in our experience, an emergency visit to the hospital when the effective ‘overdose’ occurs.
We avoid seeing doctors ourselves – I have no idea if I have high/low/medium cholesterol and I don’t care! As long as we can breathe and do what we want to do without any symptoms of ill health, we’re happy!!
+1, its the “sickcare industry”. Charles Hugh Smith has documented the enormous financial costs in the US on his blog, a great place to start is this page: https://www.oftwominds.com/blogjuly14/sickcare7-14.html
I now think it’s useful to regard healthcare as an industry that will always want to generate new customers. Pharma’s influence on this is huge. For example, the GPs’ group of the BMA vote unanimously against the wider use of stations, but were overruled by a NICE committee that has a majority of members who are linked to pharma in one way or another.
I know that many people in the NHS, including my daughter, are working hard and doing their very best for people, but there’s so much wrong. I decline all requests for ‘preventative’ tests or the flu vaccine. I am deeply sceptical about screening. We worry and harass people needlessly, including a woman friend of mine who has been called in for her third breast screening after two inconclusive results. I daren’t tell her the statistics on how useless this screening is or I’ll be called a woman murderer like Professor Peter Gotzsche.
One of the knock on effects of the anti low carbohydrate diet hysteria is that in order to get research published some nutrition researchers are now attributing the beneficial effects of a Low Carbohydrate diet to the CALORIE reduction where in practice their diet recommendations are better described as low carbohydrate based.
Zoe Harcombe in her usual ruthless style details how this is done on her blog here.
Diet for Type 2 Diabetes (DiRECT) (Part 2)
http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2018/02/diet-for-type-2-diabetes-direct-part-2/
Well worth the nominal cost subscribing.
We will never change attitudes to Low Carbohydrate diets if researchers are obliged to mislead readers by labelling their work LOW CALORIE research when the diet recommends are more accurately fit the Low Carbohydrate research classification.
I looked, but to subscribe requires a PayPal account. I had an account with them once and closing it was difficult: and I was bombarded with e-mails. Worse than cleaning AOL out of ones computer. And one needs to subscribe to send her an e-mail.
I read the Marika Sboros article now. It does destroy faith in the medical establishment. The HPCSA must know that in the end they will lose public trust whether they win the case or not. We need an experienced forensic psychiatrist to give us insight.
Thank you Dr K for this. I have already signed the petition of Change.com as a result ofmreading Goran’s comment there.
Dr. Noakes is not the only health professional that the conventional system is persecuting and trying to muzzle. This vendetta on common sense is going on in other countries: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/02/20/helping-people-eat-healthy-is-illegal.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art3&utm_campaign=20180220Z1_UCM&et_cid=DM187672&et_rid=220358412
“…certain members of the HPCSA, who some would allege have significant financial conflicts of interest, are pursuing a vendetta against Professor Tim Noakes. Just as happened to the Australian Orthopaedic surgeon, Gary Fettke”.
I would like to think that, at some point, the facts will be proved in court and the accusers of Professor Noakes and Dr Fettke will themselves end up facing long terms in prison.
It’s obvious, apart from anything else, that no country in which this kind of persecution can occur is any sort of free society. I find it amusing that Australian politicians have lately been putting the boot into Russia, when as far as I can see Russia is actually freer than Australia – certain as far as free speech is concerned.
I suppose the core problem is the existence of professional associations that have been given the power to control doctors’ livelihoods and indeed their very tongues. Most trade guilds were abolished long ago, but governments seem to feel the need to exert military discipline over health experts. Even thought the politicians themselves don’t have the faintest idea about the facts of health, medicine, or nutrition.
It’s a toxic mechanism made up of corporations, government and professional guilds. The guilds are regulated – and indeed permitted to exist – by government. The politicians have no idea what constitutes good practice, so they take advice from industry. Obviously that advice is going to be in the interests of industry, and no one else.
Tom, I would agree with everything you say were it not for your comments on Russia. However, I don’t think this is the right place to bring in that discussion.
Australian politicians are “putting the boot into Russia” as they take their instructions from the US; Turnbull is there now getting instructions for this year.
I signed.
I’ve signed and shared the petition! However, I think I must take issue on your quote from Winston Churchill… I believe you’ll find this quote was actually attributed to Mark Twain…
You might be right. But you are probably too late, my blog is now half way round the world.
I am hoping all the way round!
The backlash – “Hopelessly misinformed Doctor thinks Mark Twin is Winston Churchill – can you trust anything he says?” I am copying the case against Tim.
Indeed. Although I think it is spelt Twain. Maybe Mark’s twin was Winston Churchill – you heard it here first.
Hahaha!
(Spelt is an ancient grain. [carbohydrate.]) 🙂
Signed!
That’s all right, we can censor it for you.
Signed, The Adjustment Bureau.
Malcolm,
You may understand that I find this blog post great. If we don’t fight this crime against a human society upright we must crawl around humiliated on the ground.
Signed.
Thankyou for reiterating the disgusting affair of Prof. TIm Noakes, lest we have forgotten the facts.
I am concerned about the threats to the likes of Dr Geier, Dr Neides and Dr Dahiquist, and others that I have only learned about via this excellent blog. Let’s face it, their stories have not been highlighted on the 6pm news…..and likely never will.
They are brave people, and I can see that you, Dr Kendrick, are also brave in allowing us to discuss such things on your blog. I sincerely hope that the people using your facility do not diminish its integrity. Let’s have a bit of decorum and thought before people fire off insults.
Ditto Jennifer, it is a scary world out there.
Yes although there are many issues all over Twitter, blogs and elsewhere in the internet there is a resounding silence in the mainstream media. I don’t read it all, obviously (in fact I barely read any of it) but has anyone seen anything about the Noakes Trial, Gary Fettke etc. in ANY UK media? Thought not.
For that matter, while the Direct trial has been headline news, has there been any reporting on Virta Health? I predict not, because it is low carb (and agrees with all those pesky anecdotes) while DIRECT relies on a high carb ultraprocessed diet in minuscule quantities (and is also vegan).
Meanwhile every vegan pronouncement is headlines, especially in the Guardian. My limited experience is that the majority of commenters in the Guardian are deeply steeped in dogma whereas while the journalism in the Daily Mail is dire from the health perspective the comments there show a great deal more clue and indicate the disconnect between The Annointed and the grass roots.
that is actually a very good observation Chris, something i have noticed but never commented on…it is that ‘grassroots’ reaction that is generally correct, in my opinion…scientific studies can sometimes throw common sense out of the window…
Yes there are patients of all kinds who are improving their health despite rather than because of medical professionals, and there are an increasing number of Real Scientists who provide the material they use.
In between are dogmatists churning out more of the same.
Small but increasing numbers of doctors and even dieticians ARE noticing. They are the ones being targeted to force them back into line.
A quote I cannot attribute
“Education teaches you what questions NOT to ask. The failures become scientists”
I think it was here that someone posted a speech by Fetke in which he unveils the rather astonishing role that the 7th Day Adventist church, who have a faith based belief in vegetarianism or veganism based upon the visions of their prophetess / founder in the 1800’s, in the world wide emphasis on plant based diets. The problem is, they operate in the shadows and don’t disclose their agenda which is often a conflict of interest. A religious ideology driving so called research. For you Europeans it might seem unheard of, but yes, the 7th Day Adventist is a real church group here in the US.
I started using the phrase “Holy Health Grains” as a joke. The Fettkes showed that I was actually on to something. Also
http://letthemeatmeat.com/tagged/Seventhday_Adventists
https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/23/food-book-extract-felicity-lawrence
eight years ago from the Guardian: unlikely they would publish this today.
In the UK we had Quakers. They were not so joyless, OK they came up with Quaker Oats but were also behind several chocolate manufacturers. I think of them as Zen Christians. The SDA are more like $cientologists.
I’ve finished “Doctoring Data”. Congrats; top stuff, doc. I’ve started The Great Cholesterol Con. I’m puzzled as to why the copyright is attributed to one “Michael Kendrick”. Who he? A bug in the system?
I’ve not finished TGCC yet but have started a second go at DD. You have much to be proud of.
“The HPCSA had no guidelines …”: I notice that in our increasingly Stalinist world “guidelines” has come to mean rules of quasi-biblical authority that must never be broken. Did this trend start in the US? Even if it did, so what? It seems to have infected the other English-speaking countries.
When I was young a guideline described an approved and recommended means to achieve a given end. If someone could find a different route to the same end, that was just fine. But we were expected to exercise autonomy in those days.
Another Stalinist expression I loathe is “best practice”. It’s also used to justify depriving people of autonomy. I can easily believe in good practice; I certainly believe in bad practice. But “best”, without any nuance or qualification? Mere tyranny.
P.S. That’s only the second petition I’ve signed in my life.
P.P.S. The other one was in the 70s against the bullying of a Jewish chap in the USSR. Quite fitting, really.
I’ve signed and shared.
Dr. K, I want to tell you about something wonderful and amazing that happened to me last week.
I had my first visit to a new diabetic nurse and it was a revelation. She was very supportive of my LCHF lifestyle – “exactly the right thing for you”, she didn’t throw a wobbly at my 6.7 cholesterol reading – “let’s look at the breakdown; trigs marvellous, HDL marvellous, just keep on doing what you’re doing.” “HbA1c spot on.” She understood the implications of my Mody3 status and appreciated my desire to take responsibility for my body. My body, my responsibility. So pleased.
What a relief, not at that news which I knew would be good but at the reaction from my diabetic nurse. Could it be that the tide is turning?
Would you mind giving the A1c%, TG & HDL (mmol/l)? That would be useful input for me researching high non-HDL.
Robert,
Here is another data point. I have been very LCHF for at least 15 years. Readings in US units, mg/dL
Cholesterol 240 mg/dL
LDL cholesterol 127 mg/dL
HDL cholesterol 105 mg/dL
Triglycerides 40 mg/dL
mg/dL to mmol/L here: http://www.reducetriglycerides.com/reader_triglycerides_conversion.htm
Note, conversion is different for cholesterol and triglycerides.
My “high” LDL level would be considered bad except for the very low 0.38 ratio of triglycerides to HDL which implies low LDL-P (large particle size).
From all that I have read over many years, I’m happy with these numbers.
Phil
Hi Robert – certainly. My HbA1c was 6.1, which was a bit disappointing to me as I like to try to belong to the 5% club but obviously I wasn’t as virtuous over Christmas and the New Year as I thought. Trigs were .8 and HLD 3 – trigs normally .6 and HDL 3.3.
Tut tut, Janet. Must do better.
Jan, glad to hear that this is happening elsewhere, in the UK?
Some years ago a friend of mine turned diabetic and was promptly medicated but I convinced him to try out LCHF and to the big surprise, not only for himself but also to his diabetic nures, his T2D diagnosis had to removed from his records since he was no longer diabetic. What made him most angry was though that he couldn’t get his glucose test sticks for free any more. He felt cheated since he is one of the stronger supporters of of our NHS.
The sever T2D of my wife was also put in total remission without any medication when we turned strict LCHF-adherents ten years ago.
Sweden may be in the forefront for allowing LCHF to be advocated by NHS for T2D patients. It was the accusation from a prominent diettian (as in the Noakes’ case) in 2005 of our LCHF-pioneer Dr. Annika Dahlqvist which made the medical authorities scrutinize what she was “up to” with her diabetic and overweight patients and after three years in 2008 she was cleared and could keep her license and also get her job back which meanwhile she had lost.
Thus, LCHF became an approved treatment in Sweden to the dismay of the international Big Pharma maffia. “You Swedes are usually such a reasonable people!”
But still the hostility towards LCHF remains within the walls of our NHS though those within this system who dare advocate LCHF as a.prime choice does not face the risk of losing their job as Dr. Dahlqvist did ten years ago.
.
Hello, Goran – thank you for your kind reply. I am absolutely of a like mind with you regarding LCHF. It’s transformed me. I have always been pretty skinny (the Mody3) so I didn’t have much weight to lose but my stats are really good now. My new, and rather wonderful, (to my mind) diabetic nurse is allowing me testing strips on prescription because she recognises that it’s the only way to keep proper control and also because I MUST test before I drive.
I dropped the Metformin months ago and as a result I have colour returning to my cheeks and my digestive problems are resolved (this after 18 years of wrongly prescribed Metformin. Sadly I must continue the low dose of gliclazide as I simply can’t produce enough insulin without it even on really low carb.
I watch Dr. Eenfeldt’s(?) talks on YouTube from time to time and have found him to be a great source of inspiration….Sometimes it’s hard to be the only one declining the puddings etc., don’t you find.
Warm regards to you and your wife. I DO admire you both.
J
Goran, what do Tim Noakes, Gary Fettke, Dr Annika Dahlqvist, Dr Èvelyne Bourdua-Roy and Jennifer Elliot all have in common? A dietitian made a complaint in each case.
As dietitians become increasingly irrelevant, they become ever more desperate to cling onto control of the area of health advice that they want to own. They condemned Dr Rangan Chatterjee for performing something close to a miracle for a diabetic patient in his BBC series Doctor in the House. The British Dietetics Association was “alarmed” by Dr Chatterjee’s “potentially dangerous advice”. They didn’t say a word about the patient’s amazing change for the better.
I’ve attached a link to the relevant BBC episode and the BDA’s backward and defensive response.
https://www.bda.uk.com/news/view?id=89
Slowly.It has taken my GP about a decade to come onside with what I have been doing, aided by others’ results and case studies from nurses. I suspect also that getting rid of the PCT and the previous Practice Manager has returned some autonomy to the medical staff.
I have an LCHF spy in the NHS (not a doctor or nurse) who told me some time ago that there were in the region of 150 low carb-friendly doctors in the country. I suspect this may slowly increase as it is impossible to unsee the improvements in diabetes, obesity and many other conditions. Which is a strong reason for the Noakes Trial and other such posturings of The Authorities to quash dissent among the ranks.
The push back from the usual culprits has inadvertently awakened the sleeping giant. From big food to agribusiness, to industrialized medicine and dietary wizardry the call has gone out to search and destroy. But the handwriting’s on the wall and they know it. HFLC is a new revolution. In our own experiences and those of friends and family, we’ve seen near miracle improvement and even resolution of diseases that industrialized medicine argued were chronic and pre-destined to worsen and in need of courageous medical intervention. These amateurish attempts at the public lynchings of respected and accomplished free thinkers are sure to continue backfiring as word spreads far and wide. They can only get so far in their talking down and lying to an increasingly educated public.
Tobacco science failed, and so will big food and big pharma so long as courageous experts like Dr. Noakes and you continue to speak out.
Thank you Malcolm for keeping this issue front and center.
Signed, Dr. Kendrick..
My own take on this thing is that even if there are a number of different groups pushing this ‘anti high- fat/low-carb diet’ stance, and all of them get their individual ‘pound of flesh’ from it, there is one group who really do need to be called out, even if they are not directly involved with Prof. Noakes case, they are certainly indirectly involved: the so-called ‘plant-based physicians’.
These are real people with an insane amount of influence in the world of diet and nutrition.Because of their influence, there won’t be even a quarter of the people singing the petition that should sign it.
They are: Dr Michael Greger, Dr Caldwell Essylstyn, ‘Rip’ Essylstyn, Dr Neal Barnard, Dr T Colin Campbell, Dr Macdougall (starch solution), Dr Garth Davis and Dr Joel Fuhrman
Every one of those individuals is a vegan ( but now using the evasive, dishonest slogan ‘plant-based dieters’) and most belong to an animal rights gang called ‘the Phsicians Committee for Responsible Medicine’
They utterly despise the high-fat/low-carb diet. They have been opposing it for decades, if you throw in Dean Ornish and Nathan Pritikin.
They nearly brought Dr Atkins to an early grave. (one of them, Dr. Gerger, even started a website called ‘atkins exposed’, and when the doctor did die, even then like vultures, they fed the media his corpse:almost literally, Atkins medical records with their thin-lipped interpretation slapped on top)
We need people to oppose the antics of these emaciated plant-eaters, using sound logic, otherwise nothing will change. Sadly, one of the best weapons that can win just about any argument is the simplke observation that they are pushing a diet made up almost exclusively of imported foods ( for us in the UK at least).
Sadly, those advocating a high-fat diet in the UK most often fall into the same trap, by pushing the Holy Trinity of High Fat Plant Based Imported Foods: coconuts, avocados and olives
(how did our ancestors keep their health without these inported goodies? I see cows and pastures outside my window, not olive trees…pass the raw cheese somebody..)
…let alone the fact that almost 100% of our ‘fruits’ and a bulk of our vegetables are all imported. It is in this context that we should see the advice to ‘eat five portions a day’, ‘eat a rainbow a day’, or ‘half of your plate must be vegetables’ etc. It is impossible without Big Broccoli importing their pesticide laden vegetation from strange and exotic places.
It really is time for a ‘gloves off’ approach:
It is the food importers who benefit from this low fat, ‘plant-based’ insanity, along with the conformist ‘five a day’ cartel, including dieticians etc. ( Israeli fruit, anybody?)
Our actual experience of eating these semi-digestible, imported plants, is that they just make us even more bloated and seem to feed nothing but our ego.
Take away the supermarket, and in one fell swoop the whole ‘plant-based low fat’ house of cards collapses..(oh, and while we are at it, we will take away the dentist as well…oh the plant-based misery that would be ours without modern dentistry..( try googling ‘raw food diet teeth’, if you dare))..
How many were brainwashed by the recent propaganda film on Netflix, ‘What the health’? This was also their brian child. Like i said, they do have an insane amount of influcence.
Prof Noakes is a gentle guy. I wish we had the same influence as the plant-munchers. I hope his lawyers are totally fearless, but they should be arguing from a commonsense cultural perspective that says ‘no’ to the food importers and theiur profiteering side-kicks.
@Cameron Angus – well said. The number of people converting to ‘veganism’ that I know is increasing weekly. I think that film had a lot to do with it and I’ve read elsewhere that a lot of the ‘facts’ they quoted in the film are not facts at all. I have also heard that many women have had to return to an omnivorous diet after a few years as their health suffered so much they had no choice. We try to eat as unprocessed a diet as possible using seasonal and local ingredients, organic, grass-fed meat etc but those newly-converted vegans that I know seem to live on whatever processed meat/cheese/milk ‘substitutes’ they can find which have to be unhealthy in the long term. It’s also been pointed out that without grazing animals, the quality of farmland to produce all this vegan food will deteriorate and need artificially applied fertilisers – ok, we don’t need to eat those animals I suppose, but they will also need room to live and no doubt will reproduce to the extent that there’ll be too many of them. It all seems so unnatural…
Great observations anglosvizzera, it really concerns me as a Nutritional Therapist that so many are turning to a vegan diet, only later to encounter numerous health problems. I have seen it with my own eyes. A woman stops menstruating or sinks into depression etc.When this happens, they will insist it is anything except the new diet they have switched to. At the start they may feel on top of the world, but it can’t last forever. It is a ‘fed fasting state’. Dr Natasha campbell McBride (GAPS diet creator) has made this connection beautifully. Her book on vegetarianism is definitely worth a read. If you have not already read it.
I also heartily recommend ‘Vegan betrayal. Love, lies, and hunger in a plants-only world’ by Mara J.Kahn She was herself a vegan for many years and provides an insiders perspective into the dishonesty and double standards that a vegan is often forced into.
What really disturbs me is that the group of doctors i mentioned above have phenomenal influence in the world of nutrition, pushing a diet of imported plant matter. The connection with Prof. Noaks is that he would never be in that position he is in if there were more people promoting the benefits of a high fat/ carbohydrate restricted diet, rich with pastured animal products, in his own country, and globally. It is very encouraging that Dr Kendrick supports him. It really is as simple as following the money when it comes down to the reasons why they are persecuting him. But that is a narrative we never hear.
‘Big Butter, Big Dairy’, etc. But their is also lurking in the shadows a real ‘Big Broccoli’: the food importers. Without them the very idea of a vegan diet in the northern hemisphere is literally impossible! Sweet potatos from South Africa, a strange grain from Canada, a spice from india, flaxseed from China,salt from the Himalayas. etc We really should take steps to stop the imported food madness, because by insisting that we find health in our indigenous foods that are in season, it slices the legs off this ( plant-based) beast with one stroke.No wonder veganism was not created here in the UK until the 1940s here in England, when the food importers were making greater inroads and a little later the supermarket appeared that has now taken over everything..Take care…..
I HAVE to reply to your comment, for it is made in ignorance. We are not vegan, although I do feel we (humanity) will have to face our greed for meat as a terrible cruelty against animals, and we are producing a product degraded by the use of antibiotics and cruelty, that, in the end might be bad for us. But, I want you to understand how The McDougall ‘starch solution’ changed our diabetes. His idea is that for every meal, you eat STARCH. Everything else is the “condiment”. This is counter-intuitive to a diabetic (two of us) who have been doing HFLC (fasting) diets. It worked in the beginning, but both of us seemed to have hit a wall. Tim Noakes also hit a wall. He has had to reduce calories and even take medication. So there is something distressing about ‘hitting a wall’. At the beginning of December 2017, I heard McDougall talking. It sounded crazy. But I went on the diet – starch-based – as a sort of defiant challenge. My sugar was down in 24 hours and it has remained normal ever since. I lost 6 kg so my weight is also normal. My husband finished the bacon and eggs we used to eat for breakfast (he hates waste!) and then HE tried ‘starch based’ too. He’s on insulin which he is going to come off after his HbA1c next week for his blood sugars are now too low. He has lost 6 kg which is miraculous because he’s the type of person that cannot lose weight no matter how he starves himself. My husband has all sorts of health problems trackable by science, so it is going to be interesting to see what difference ‘starch based’ might do. We have sustainable fish on Fridays (God knows why our family has always done that for we are not religious, nor Catholic!) and I’m going to have a two egg omelette tonight. But we haven’t missed the meat…I don’t know what is “right” or “wrong”, but there IS a huge surge against eating meat, especially amongst younger people – mostly on ethical grounds. My son-in-law in South Africa who tried ‘starch-based’ too had to ditch his blood pressure pills for his blood pressure going too low on it, so HE is pleased.
I am just reporting that my own sceptical disbelief has been altered by ACTUALLY doing it.
I think it’s worth investigating seriously.
Interesting!
I usually say that if you don’t have problem you don’t need to care about it. Another way to express this is: “Don’t eat more carbs than you can tolerate!”. So if you have happily come out of the metabolic syndrom on strict LCHF you might have come out of a metabolic prison (restored insulin sensitivity?) and are free to eat a “normal” diet again.
By the way I have an old friend of mine (still young) who was ahead of me with LCHF about twenty years ago when he demonstrated impressive weight loss his surrounding on the diet. Then he did “relax” and regained the weight but he certainly knew how to lose it again. Yesterday he told me that he had in four month now lost 20 kg on strict LCHF and is not overweight any more.
My wife has amazingly, as I often tell, completely reversed her T2D for ten years now and we are again trying to introduce more vegetables, hesitatingly though since she has had several backlashes when we did that prematurely. Our blood glucose levels are now, since long, fine but still tend to go high if we cheat with the carbs. (Too easy in our food environment of today to our opinion.) Our insulin status we know little about.
However, it should be stated that we are trying to stay moderate on the proteins which means roughly 1 g per kg of weight and in terms om meat (wild caught fish or green pastured beef) consumption which converts to about 200 g per day. Saturated fats are the innocent part of the macronutrients .
The official alarm about the saturated fats are not scientifically based but just propelled to keep the cholesterol “band wagon” moving in the interest of Big Pharma profits. My guess is that these cynics are looking upon the vegans as their “good idiot friends”.
I wish I could think that were the case – but on HFLC our blood sugars were not good – even with my husband on insulin. “you might have come out of a metabolic prison (restored insulin sensitivity?) and are free to eat a “normal” diet again.” THAT would be nice!
thelastfurlong what were you eating before going starchy? Reducing sucrose and fructose could be the key to McDougall starch diet not the elimination of butter, meat, eggs and cheese. I follow LCHF with some starches. This is not a high protein diet. Excess protein can activate mTOR and therefore not beneficial.
We could have been eating too much protein – yes.
thelastfurlong, that might be genetic or via some other reason we don’t know. I’ve been LCHF for 4+ years now. Got a continuous blood glucose monitor (CGM), to attempt to test for gluconeogenesis after eating high protein meals. I was testing Ted Naiman’s theory that high protein is better than high fat for low carb. I could not find any gluconeogenesis, even eating a TON of protein (all animal products, no “pure” protein). (My conclusion so far: I’m not sure, but I eat a lot of higher protein, lower fat meals now.)
Anyway, had some white potatoes one morning with my eggs and meat, and my blood sugar went through the roof. That happens each time I have potatoes. It’s not as bad as pizza, which causes a very high blood sugar for a very long time, but it’s bad.
I also spent 4-5 months (before I got the CGM) trying to eat starch in the form of resistant starch, along with probiotics. If there is a benefit to this, I could not find it. Only detriments, including IBS (cured once eating basically meat).
For me, a high starch diet is a non-starter due demonstrated high blood sugar and its affect on my digestive system.
I don’t doubt others can eat this, though. The interesting thing would be to find out why some respond to that diet and some don’t (and same with LC).
Yes – I would like to know too. I always thought of myself as a “protein” person, but now I don’t know! It’s early days yet….
Well, if it works, I wish you well.
I have to say that it’s contrary to the diabetics I know who continuously monitor their blood sugar. I think there’s common ground, though, on reducing or eliminating sugar and processed food.
Just a brief word on meat. It can be pasture fed or highly industrial. I use my local butcher and I can see the farms where meat comes from. It is overwhelmingly from local farms and fields. I think those who can afford to eat this kind of meat production should try to do so.
Vegans are allowed their own moral position, but some behave like fanatics and are violent and irrational. They were quite happy to assault Lierre Keith for changing her mind on veganism. Their humanity is not extended to humans who disagree with them.
I agree on every point! We ARE blood testing diabetics. Almost everything we ate on HFLC fasting diet was home made. Eating starch is counter intuitive. And I think we will manipulate our diet to include fish, and eggs. Maybe a tiny amount of meat. Our starch is mainly potatoes – and oats for breakfast. These are European staples. We don’t eat vegan commercial food. Or buy into salt from the Hamaliyas.(sp) So, we might hit a wall with ‘starch based’ too….Interesting reply – thank you.
That is fantasic thelastfurlong..i am really happy for your good results. I do hope they last. The same for your husband. I advocate a modest amount of starch as a Nutritional Therapist, but not too much ( about 50 grams of carbohydrate a day, or two small potatoes) and in the context of a diet rich in animal fats ( and meat in moderation, i am more interested in skin, blood, bones and organs)
The problem with McDougall’s diet, in my opinion, is that it cannot be sustained in the long run without health consequences. If you have fish and eggs, then you are not folowing his diet (!) I don’t say that is a bad thing, that is a good thing! But this is exactly what i meant: his ‘starch solution’ is a vegan diet, if it is followed as he prescribes it. It makes no allowance for fish or eggs. Fasting will have the same effect thelastfurlong, that has been known for decades. The vegan diet is a ‘fed fasting’ state, which is why it seems to ‘work’ for type 2 diabetes. Dr MacDougall will not even acknowledge that the high fat/ low carb diet has any benefit for a condition like type 2 diabetes. Sometimes calories matter. Sometimes, but not always. If you eat his diet you will never be able to ‘go over’ in terms of calories anyway, it is simply impossible.
Can i offer another observation for you as well? Dr Ryke Geerd Hamer (Germany) discovered that diabetes is the bodies reaction to an unexpected shock concerning something we don’t want to do ( the ‘mule conflcit’ he called it), and not directly the result of foods we have eaten that we shouln’t have. By addressing this dimension, many have resolved their diabetes, according to the doctor. If something similar has happened in your own life/lives i wish you both the best for healing and/or resolving the conflict that caused the body to begin this ‘program’ to begin with. Try googling ‘Learning German New Medicine’ and look for diabetes for more information, if you would like to know more about that. All the best.
Thank you – I will research that. A question came to mind. Are there more diabetics in “violent” countries?
You may want to watch this video on the true origins of the big push for plant based eating by Dr. Gary Fettke: The Role of Nutrition in Everything
There is one Religious organisation at the centre of the cereal based food industry, and has been for over a century. His research is impeccable.
I got the video link from this page.
http://foodmed.net/2017/08/07/medical-evangelism-adventist-diet-advice/
I struggled with the sound in this video. Two things popped into my head. The first is that most cereals, depleting our soils are fed to animals – to make meat, not to Seventh Day Adventists or vegans. The second, was that the horrors of factory farming and the fouling of meat with medication, is what is turning people away from eating it – organic is very expensive here in the UK.
And it raised a question – is the World Health Organisation also in the pay/under the influence of The Seventh Day Adventists too? http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/
Maybe they are. The Tobacco Control ideology has seeped in big time! Thanks for posting your link…interesting.
He is really criticising grains and here I agree but this has little to do with a Whole Food Plant Based diet. He does not really go into longevity in any depth in fact he threatens to later on and then skips the issue. Also he suggests that Okinawa centenarians eat more animal protein than mainland but fails to mention that their proportion of animal fat to total fat is far less
Well said! And of course a plant based diet does NOT exclude industrial plants.
Show me a meat based high fat low carb diet that has reversed heart disease
one of the best, historically, is the Optimal Diet of Dr Jan Kwasniewski in Poland. He is almost completely unknown here in the UK. In his Arkadia clinics in Poland he treated thousands suffering from a host of pathologies, including ‘heart disease’, using a very high-fat diet.
You won’t find coconuts and avocados ( imported plant foods) on his menus: people got well eating bacon and eggs ( especially yolks, up to 6 a day) cooked in lard. Cheese fried in pigs grease with a handful of french fries. A tiny amount of seasonal vegetation would decorate the plate ( pickles etc) next to the starch. Broths with blood and skin, with gelatine from pig’s feet, finished with butter and cream. Liver pate on buttered cheese pancakes that had been cooked in a puddle of lard, fried black pudding topped with bacon grease and fried onions…..even most low-carbers are not ready for the example he has set. A genuine high fat diet. But not ketogenic, interestingly.
And he has prescribed this diet from the 1960s, even before Atkins. He was light-years ahead of his time. Carbohydrates were restricted to 50 grams a day ( roughly) and they came mainly from potato, because this was a native starch and the poorest people could afford it. That potato was always dripping in fat, normally french fries but sometimes a spoon or two of mashed potato with lard and butter worked in. Again only 100g of potato ( about 25-30 grams of carbs) a day or so.. ( absolutely lovely)…potatoes?? On a low carb diet??…yup. Those foods were restricted, not eliminated. The results he got have never, in my opinion, been repeated by anybody, possibly because the ‘others’ are way, way too cautious. See this free PDF for numbers, in the second section of the book… https://musingsofamountainmama.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/homo-optimus_jan-kwasniewski.pdf
This Dr was helping thousands in his native communist Poland. They would come in droves, often arriving in wheelcharis and leaving without them some weeks later, having chowed down on pig’s skin, pate, bone marrow, pig’s brains fried in beef fat and finished with lard-cooked eggs, and these were really poor people.
He was not writing a ‘New York Times’ best seller from the comfort of an air-conditioned office, filling a book with useless footnotes to push propaganda and food importation. We should take our hats off to him. In his heyday, millions of Polish people were following his diet and getting very, very well. I am sorry to break that news to you if his diet is offensive.
There was a study from 1980 concerning ‘heart disease’ and the Optimal Diet. In his clinic, heart patients would eat loads of egg yolks ( up to 6 a day), the single most heart-healing food, in his opinion.
I don’t believe that any one diet can ‘cure heart disease’. Fasting benefits all disease, including what you call ‘heart disease’, and that is what you are looking at with a ‘Whole-Foods-Plant-Based-Diet’…a glorified fast…oh, and a lot of imported vegetation from who knows where..(people, please wake up to this sleight of hand! Do we want a model of healthy eating that relies almost 100% on the machinations of the food importers?)…
Dr Caldwell Essystyn often used statins to get his patients total cholesterol ridiculously low (150 if i’m not mistaken), so he can’t claim his magical ‘plants’ were what helped them ‘recover from heart disease’. Some dropped dead. Others appeared to get ‘better’ on his plant eating program…great. Not sure what i’m supposed to celebrate ( it’s like waiting for a thousand piece orchestra to play a fanfare that should split the earth in two, and instead we hear a drunk blast out a single note on a kazoo before burping and passing out…)
All this is health by numbers: cholesterol is down to this, blood presure is this etc. How many times did those heart patients laugh and have fun? Did thier new diet mean they could again enjoy better social interaction ( that always includes food, in one shape or form)? Or ( more likely) did they mope about all day sad and skinny and very, very hungry?…..but hey, they have ‘reversed heart disease’?..
Dean Ornish had a similar thing going on but his was a life-style intervention, not just diet…..( why is it that dishonesty seems to rule the roost with these vegan, and/or low-fat doctors? It must be the conflict of interest)
Dr Hamer in Germany discovered that because the heart is made up of different embryonic germ layers, they reflect different problems, or responses, more precicely.
All heart disease is, in his opinion, a response to an unexpected conflict shock that the patient could not predict ( diet you can control. Unexpected trauma you can’t)
The myocardium, for example, is a conflict of unbearable sress. When that conflict is resolved the patient will have a myocardial infarct ( notice, there is no blockage in the arteries etc.) It may prove fatal. But this only happens in the ‘healing phase’, not when they are sympathetic dominant in the ‘conflict active phase’.
With the coronary veins and arteries: in a man this is a territorial loss conflict, and in a woman it is a sexual conflict.
When they experience an unexpected conflict shock with those themes, those stuctures ulcerate to allow more blood into the heart. For a woman the cervix is also affected to widen the cervix and increase the chance of conceiving. When the conflict is resolved they will replenish that tissue, and that could potentially block the artery or vein ( when the tissue is replenished in the cervix, it could be diagnosed as a ‘cervical cancer’)
If a man has had this conflict for up to four months he will probably suvive the heart attack ( it’s not the heart muscle, note, it is the coronary artery) and all this is mediated by the brain.It is like an epileptic fit on the organ level, all with a clear biological purpose)
If the conflict has lasted over 9 months it will kill him when he resolves it. Any one of those facts can easily be verified. I have seen it with my own eyes. These are not my discoveries, they are Dr Hamer’s ( so a big ‘thankyou’ to the slethering, money-loving, international parasites who twice put this kind, brilliant man in prison to supress his findings…if that had never happened, i would never have given his ideas a second glance. The man paid dearly)
Diet does not directly come into play here because these were unexpected, traumatic life events the patient had no power over. This is something that Dr Kendrick has essentially come to understand just by his own research and findings…incredible.
By the way, concerning territorial loss conflicts, this is what Dr Atkins experienced: he lost, almost overnight his Atkins Centre in New York ( or a large part of it)..heart issues followed including a myocardial infarction because he entered the healing phase of this conflict. Nothing to do with eating a bag of pork rinds….
Cameron. I looked up info regarding the Optimal Diet, but found only one in English language. It has opened up another bag of worms showing the way scientific research is distorted by some ignorant commentators. The CBS had discussed the diet back in 2009, and left anyone thinking of following said regime, in no doubt that a high intake of animal fat ( which, as we know, is not wholly saturated fat), would be unlikely to countenance. The journalist gave a ridiculous example ( by using 3 times the fat advised), of how to use the diet, sufficient to denounce the regime, and in much the way that Dr Atkins was mis-quoted. It was fake news back then, and another reason why I would prefer the sensible people on this blog to have access to original papers ( let’s not presume all are good), and thus for us not to be dependent on interpretation by ignorant people.
We can read and write to a reasonable level, so let’s not underestimate our ability to distinguish reality from hogwash.
After years reading this blog, there are those whom I trust to do the leg work for me, and those whom I give a derisory wave to. We probably all have our favourites, so I do not wish the blog to end up as another echo chamber.
thanks for that Jennifer..yes i remember that news article (!)..
Where was this study (heart) published Cameron
This beggars belief!
Follow the Money, – just follow the $$$s. . .
Usually a good tactic, I find.
I forget the exact detail, but when Mary Enig was researching trans-fats she was told at a conference on fats & oils that she would get plenty of funding if she published the ‘correct’ results.
I’ve signed.
Here’s a great story on Mercola’s site, about a physician who was targeted and hounded by the authorities, took them to court and won. And the best thing is that the people who went after him had to pay a large part of the compensation out of their own pockets. https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/02/20/medical-board-sued-for-harassment.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20180220Z1_UCM&et_cid=DM187672&et_rid=220744437
Great summary of this farcical situation. If it were not such a waste of time, money & energy it would be pythonesque in some ways. Sign and shared of course. I hope this HPCSA committee gets fired and held accountable for abusing their positions.
Please continue to share your insights with the rest of us and ignore the many people with vested interests in the status quo🙏🏻
Thankyou for the chance to sign and donate. The worlds gone mad.
Sent from my iPhone
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signed.
I have signed. ‘They’ tried every Statin known to man on me and they all made me ill. I know a lot of sick people on them but they still take them! Thank you
Medical Science has failed. Not Tim Noakes. Is it a revenge from Medical society. Medical science should focus on their failed biomedical model. The dangerous organ-specific thinking and lack of a theory that gives justice to the human nature.
http://tidsskriftet.no/en/2011/04/human-biology-saturated-experience
i live in South Africa. I thought the Noakes case was over and done, and he came out of it clean as a whistle. After that the founder of CrossFit had the case examined by an investigative journalist, who found that Coca Cola was, indirectly, behind the witnesses testifying against Noakes. See Mercola’s article dated April 30, 2017: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/04/30/insulin-resistance-high-carb-low-fat-connection.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20170430Z1_UCM&et_cid=DM142142&et_rid=1988868239
Either way, worth reminding us of what lengths the fascist ‘elite’ will go to maintain control.
But guess I should have read the Petition first.
Signed and shared!
Signed and shared. I hope Professor Noakes is exonerated…
Good to see your name again, Dr Kendrick, after too long: make it more frequent!
Do you remember coming to talk to us at Conway Hall once when you were in London? Some of the more unhealthy looking members could do with another visit. There’s to be a new organiser soon and I’ll try to put him or her in touch with you.
With best wishes
Fiona Weir
Signed. Really dislike this kind of witch hunting.
I’ve been following this case since it began, Fetke’s also. What I’m wondering about is where the other physicians are, especially in Fetke’s case? If he’s not allowed to mention diet, and apparently only dieticians are, well what if every doctor started giving nutritional advice? What would they do then? What if every professor in S. Africa started tweeting nutritional advice? Would only those who believe in low fat, high carb be allowed?
Surely the ‘making of an extreme example’ such as ‘Wakefielding’ is the old way to terrorise others to not follow suit. Which in the short term may indeed lead to self-censor, but also results in loss of respect in the system.
That is the reason for an otherwise insanely disproportionate reaction to rules and regs prohibiting direct medical advice over the internet – excepting the ‘top down defined and imposed standards’.
If we act like slaves, we invite further treatment as slaves and increasing adapt within an acceptance of being slaves.
Dr. K
Signed the petition, hope this case is widely publicized.
Will there be a return to blog 46 “the mind”? I am a slow thinker and need more time to understand what the mind is, its relationship to neurones, endocrine system, HPA axis, microbiota, parasympathetic system, blood glucose, depression, vagus nerve, and other stuff.
I, of course, have signed. I don’t believe in the one size fits all diet, but the outrageous reaction to this particular diet, which has major benefits for those suffering from heart-related, type 2 diabetes is beyond a joke. If it works, then you should do it. As someone for years who was on the low-fat diet, and ended up the size of a bus, the LCHF is the right diet for me (and I have lost at least 2 stone so far, got a ways to go though), and if any doctor I come across can’t hack the science, then they can’t treat me. I mean, it is not as if, it is not full of vegetables, meat, dairy, and fat, all of which are full of vitamins, and are unprocessed, which I think is the main point.
In the immortal words of Mel Brooks, “We’ve got to protect our phony-baloney jobs, Gentlemen!”
Already signed the petition re Tim Knoakes! This is an enormous coincidence, as I have just finished(This a.m.) a book I downloaded on kindle by Dr. Vernon Wheelock, entitled Healthy Eating, The Big Mistake. How Modern Medicine got it wrong about Diabetes, Cholesterol, Cancer, Alzheimer’s and Obesity. Published January 2018. Chapter 14 is entitled The Turbulent Trial of Tim Noakes. For those people who have been following the whole torturous journey over the last few years, it could be said to be going over old ground. However, for those who are newer to the battle it’s a real eye opener as to how we are being short changed by those who should know and behave better. It’s jammed packed with hundreds of useful references. Short and sweet, it’s an amazing little book! It should be read by everyone who can read, and cares about their health. It’s time for more preventative medicine, and less keeping people sick for money! Please, please, read it.(£1.99 at the minute). It will make you feel angry and frustrated. We deserve better, all of us!
Joyce, I recently finished the book and was very impressed. I’m glad I read it. I think people interested in different diseases will appreciate different chapters on fats, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer’s and so on. Well written by someone with a relevant and interesting background.
Stephen, I agree. Just a terrible shame there’s a need to write books and put careers on the line to get to the truth. What makes me angry isn’t that they got it wrong, but that they know they got it wrong, and continue to perpetuate the myth. Arrogance? Greed? Stubbornness? Cowardice? All unforgivable. I’m sounding very cynical here, time to zip it! 🤐 lol.
Good
This just in:
Pitting “low” carb diet against low fat diet. What’s the use of that?
Deserves pointed commentary, I think.
http://www.cardiobrief.org/2018/02/20/low-carb-and-low-fat-diets-battle-to-a-draw/
(Professor Noakes is part of it.)
Malcolm, As I read the comments here I began to wonder what else we can do to stop the harrasment of Prof Noakes. Most of us live scattered across the planet, not in South Africa.
When I signed the Change petition I made the comment ” We are watching you HPCSA”. with the clear message that it cannot do this ‘in the dark with nobody knowing”.
But what else that is effective,can be done ?
Just know that you are helping to shine some light on this issue. It is a good thing, it will help.
Let us hope he will be heartened that people care about his dreadful situation, he is carrying a heavy burden, Hope all the messages of support will help in some way to make it lighter.
An off topic PS but about CVD causes but not about diet 🙂
Norman Swan of the ABC Health Report ( who I am sure many of us do not want remember ) has an interview recently with a Canadian researcher Jeffery Kwong, that discusses how infection with Influenza strain causes a six fold increase in heart attacks in the week after infection. The risk drops substantially in the second, third & fourth weeks after flu infection. Now all that is very interesting.
However it is not quite as clear as crystal :
1 : Most people who get flu simply stay home and go to bed and take pain killers maybe. The discussion does not tell us what the proportion is.
2: A low proportion of flu sufferers are badly effected and need hospitalisation – at least in Ontario, Canada where Winter is severe.
3: The ‘six fold increase’ in heart attacks takes place in the hospitalised group.
Now this does introduce some major confounders :
– Could there be something else in the hospitals which stimulated the increase MI rate ?
– Or is the health state of the these hospitalised flu victims more ‘compromised ‘ thus leading to a higher MI rate ?
There is no discussion of this unfortunately.
They do go on to discuss what to do to lesson the risk of getting the flu. Having a flu vaccination in the first cab off the rank. But this does not reduce the risk entirely. Some vaccinated people get the flu anyway and are hospitalised and some of these still had heart attacks. The confounders mentioned above probably were coming into play.
In any case it depends on which flu vaccine is injected. And I am not very confident about the value of flu vaccination given the very informative discussions that have taken place here over many blogs. So that would not be my preferred option.
However they go on to discuss briefly an other method of avoiding the flu : washing our hands. The simple traditional sanitary measure we all take for granted.
Here is the link to the transcript :
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/healthreport/flu-increases-risk-of-heart-attack/9461440#transcript
Bill in Oz, I think the official information about flu, prevention and treatment is probably misleading. An immunologist on BBC Radio 4 program on Wednesday of this week said that for over 65s the hoped for response was likely to be 1 in 10. That means there is a 90% failure rate. So my reading of this means the flu jab is mostly pointless, and when you consider the vaccine is made up by guessing a year ahead which virus is going to be doing the rounds, like other vaccines (and I would suggest all vaccines) it is a total waste of effort, and nutrition is the only way to ensure healthy outcomes.
Now back to Tim Noakes.
I listened to that too, with growing annoyance.
The issue I have with vaccines is the unnecessary use of adjuvants, especially aluminium salts.
Unnecessary because vaccines can be produced without adjuvants, and have been recently by a biotech company in the US. This adjuvant free flu vaccine sold as ‘Flublok’ has been licensed and is just as efficacious as the current adjuvant based vaccines.
The other major advantage of this vaccine is that it can be produced for use as a seasonal vaccine in just 2 months instead of the 6 months required for the egg based vaccines (6 billion eggs are required each year), enabling a far better match between the vaccine and the circulating flu viruses. Worryingly the company producing ‘Flublok’ has been bought out by the largest manufacturer of conventional adjuvant based vaccines, Sanofi. Sanofi has previous in this having bought out the vaccine manufacturer who bought out the Pasteur Institute’s vaccine unit that was the only producer of adjuvant free children’s vaccines – Sanofi has closed down these vaccine lines.
My annoyance with the broadcast piece (and also coincidentally with ‘Medicine Balls’ in Private Eye this week) is that the use of adjuvants was not considered by the eminent person to be one of the main reasons why ‘Elderly’ people (i.e. more widely read people) like myself won’t, and arguably shouldn’t, countenance vaccination with vaccines containing salts of a a metal that, despite being a major component of the Earth’s Crust, takes no part in biological processes and is a known neurotoxin disproportionately present in the brains of Alzheimer’s and Autistic Spectrum patients. While association is not causation, the accidental poisoning of significant numbers of people in Camelford with aluminium sulphate resulted in symptoms difficult to distinguish from Alzheimer’s Disease.
Stephen, Radio 4 this week had a flu vaccine article and stated only 1 in 10 jabs for over 65s were effective (whatever that means), so 90% were a waste of time. If the adjuvant free vaccine was just as effective perhaps we should be stopping this pointless activity and hgave proper nutrition instead. See Stephanie Seneff’s video on the benefits (or reasons for) influenza. Supposedly it corrects a blood sulphate deficiency.
” (6 billion eggs are required each year)”
I wonder how many vegans refuse the vaccine.
Strangely after being plagued all my life with minor infections even colds have become a thing of the past since I started low carbing (actually it’s probably the high fat including high quantities of fat-soluble nutrients). Anecdotally commonplace, I wonder if there are likely to be any studies.
I have just discovered this discussion in response to my own above of the 20th of Feb…
Almost all my life I declined flu vaccinations. But in 2016, at the grand old age of 69, and feeling somewhat frail after a major fall and fractures in an arm, I acquiesced to a flu jab. I had a second in April 2017. They made no difference. I still came down with the flu in each Winter….
This coming Winter I will give it a miss.
Meanwhile nobody has responded on the idea of washing our hands as the simple & traditional method of avoiding infections. Soap & hot water ! What could be easier ?
Fettke (Gary AND Belinda), Kendrick, Demasi, Noakes. So grateful to all of these.
This is all too common, though maybe not to such a level of crass stupidity. So called “professionals” behaving like tinpot bigots.
Oops, forgot to tick the boxes
oops me too
Excellent recap of the madness currently at play! As an optometrist also advising the benefits of this lifestyle I almost want someone to call me out as well, I know evidence from the likes of Virta Health and dr Jason Fung, the work of Prof Noakes and Dr Fettke as well as NZs own Prof Schofield, Dr Zinn and Cliff Harvey are all a solid allegiance on the matter.
I seem to be unable to help with the crowd funding for Tim Noakes. Are you able to help me please. This situation is diabolical.
Not sure. Maybe someone here can help.
The world has truly gone mad! Another gentle and wonderful man, Dr Gordon Skinner in the UK was hounded to an early grave by authorities because he treated patients and not numbers from a lab report for thyroid patients. I asked a recently graduated doctor how much training he had in nutrition……two HOURS, in four years. But he certainly knows how to type out scripts for any and all killer drugs. Prof Noakes is a dedicated, honest and very knowledgeable doctor and I’m appalled to think this is kicking off again. I’ve signed and I’m sure there will be well over 15000 others.
Had already signed, but glad to see you are so supportive, Malcolm. We need people in the profession of medicine to stick up for their collegues and the health of the rest of us.
It beggars belief. What has happened to scientific enlightenment? Oh yes, I forgot- don’t upset the apple cart and the revenue stream.
Signed.
Science advances one funeral at a time. Medicine, one career at a time…
I too have signed the petition.
This is a case where science has just refused to accept that the evidence does not support their position. They know they will ultimately be accused of killing and injuring large numbers of people with their awful advice, yet all they can think of to do, is to dig their heels in, whatever the cost, to delay the day of reckoning while killing a few more people.
To the growing awareness of a ‘hidden’ tyranny I invite considering two aspects, one is the exposure of networks of shared or overlapping private interests that operate politically by deceit of a masked agenda, and the other is the ideas or thinking that effectively constitute the mask.
The former is the level of the personality structure – which is usually denied illumination by the assignment and operation of the mind of guilt and its attack in the other, that serves the basis of power struggle. The latter is thinking that runs as accepted currency, and in exactly the same way as our financial currency systems, is fundamentally rigged or running on the basis of masking deceit.
The term ‘Too big to fail’ has been assigned to the banking sector in its exposure as a predatory deceit. To rip out the tares would destroy the harvest crop. A true discernment as to the true and false is called for in vigilance against deceit.
A world of lies results from protecting or masking over a hidden lie. Lies go forth and multiply as fig-leaf thinking that by nature shuns or distorts any light of an honest account that would expose our own sense of invalidity or unworthiness. But the lie – like a trojan ploy – hides in the forms of truth, kindness, caring and respectability and is believed and defended as true.
Tim Noakes exemplifies a core honesty of self along with his family support and community support of a willingness to stand in such honesty, despite threat, smear or coercion. This is not the basis for making special his person, but for the likewise aligning in honesty of witness as the core relational value for self, community, and society. So signing the petition may be much more than doing something and then reverting to routine. It can be a stirring of recognition of worth, that needs witnessing and acknowledging in our thought word and deed – whatever lives we may be living.
Unless we live from a truly extended sense of worth, we are defaulted to thinking that allows us to be manipulated.
Another term for honesty or truth is without manipulation.
The vendetta runs much deeper than any persons who show up on the radar. A sense of justified hate runs as ‘self-righteous’ exclusion. Cognitive dissonance operates such that no communication can reach any who are certain their hate is just vengeance served.
But to a growing willingness to listen and see with a fresh perspective, messengers and symptoms that before were made war upon, are revealed as the bearers of true communication, as the manipulative framework of self-deceits, is released to self honesty.
Splendid, Binra. Thank you.
hello
I have signed and given a small contribution, hope others will do the same!
Signed the Noakes petition, but not the other 57 varieties of petitions they sent me afterwards.
Honestly, the HPCSA’s shenanigans make me embarrassed to be a South African. Those people wouldn’t know how to scratch an itch without a dermatologist advising them, presumably.
“Baby doesn’t eat the dairy and cauliflower. Just very healthy high-fat breast milk. Key is to ween [sic] baby onto LCHF.”
A point of clarification: isn’t dairy considered LCHF? I know the paleo people abjure dairy, but I always thought full-fat milk was, well, full of fat. And if mother’s milk isn’t dairy, what is it? So I don’t see why you shouldn’t feed babies on dairy.
Weaning babies in a timely fashion is introducing and adapting them to their world.
So I didn’t in any way see the advice as an instruction to get off mother’s milk, but to start off in a sound diet as one weans from the breast.
Dairy:
Low carbs and healthy/high quality fat.
Dairy fat can be high quality fat.
And can be something else.
What do the cows feed upon?
What is the oversight regarding administering of drugs?
(Where I am, the milk is thrown away while a cow is on antibiotics).
Is the milk denatured (pasteurised).
Is the milk homogenised and if so, do the micro-filtered nanoparticulate fats contribute – for example – to leaky gut?
We are fortunate to have access to raw milk.
Dairy may flag up issues of lactose tolerance.
There is also sheep and goat milk.
There are fermented milk products and cheeses that offer benefits above calories/energy.
While my partner is eating a ketogenic diet, she sees milk as a significant carb intake.
There are all sorts of opinions about milk and dairy.
Grass fed spring/summer butter will also of course depend on the health of the grassland.
You missed the context. The mother was worried that what she was eating might cause the baby to get gas. He said don’t worry because the baby isn’t eating the cauliflower directly. He did not address feeding the baby any particular thing, just that LCHF would be the way to go.
Oh, I get it. The mother is the one eating cauliflower and drinking milk. Thank you for clarifying that.
great article 🙂 love the sarcasm!
This comes hardly as a surprise, then. Apparantly, Novartis bought pretty much all the politicians in Greece, and a significant part of their debt is due to overpaying on prescriptions:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/12/greek-pm-calls-for-inquiry-into-bribery-claims-against-two-predecessors
Dear Me, Dr Kendrick posts a blog about Dr Tim Noakes 2 days ago.. And now with 107 commenst it’s again been hijacked by diet comments – including a vegan keen to get us all eating a high carn diet..Good Grief Charlie Brown !
😦
Yes, diet holds a mesmerising power.
Dear Bill
It is incredible. Blog 46, opens as being a big ticket item, not even 10% of the comments concern the mind CVD link, how it could work etc! The Tim Noakes affair is about diet, but in, to my mind, an indirect manner, but it’s diet all the way. I begin to despair.
The Tim Noakes affair is a far wider issue than diet. It is about silencing dissent. Something we should fight against wherever, and whenever, we see it.
Malcolm
Sorry, my remark was too elliptical, the Tim Noakes affair is about freedom’ and cannot be considered unimportant.
I have signed, and, equally important put my money where my mouth is!
Well I suppose it could be termed “dissent”, I would say it is silencencing inconvenient facts. In the case of Tim Noakes and Gary Fettke, to name but two, it is another case of trying to work out if the people doing the silencing are ignorant or evil. In the case of doctors poorly educated in nutrition, their advice may be given because they are ignorant. In the case of the authorities who are attempting to silence the inconvenient facts (given by people are not poorly educated in nutrition), they must fall into the evil category. To wit, medical director of LGH.
Mr Chris, please do not despair.
Blog 46 as well as blogs 45 + 45B are important (what the hell, all of them from the very first all those many months ago are important), however they have been temporarily hijacked by really HOT news that affects us all. This is the sharp end as Big everything aided and abetted by the profits of the political-economy try and screw us the silent majority.
Have no fear, we all will get back to our favourite topic that Dr Kendrick writes so elegantly – many many thanks again doctor.
Yes I did ponder the number of comments in the previous blog that addressed the subject.. But just 10% is surprising.. And I remember writing a number of relevant comments that were on topic but with hardly any responses…
What to do ? Does this require the exclusion of off topic comments ?
Mr Chris, getting back to the mind:
WARNING: READING THIS BLOG WILL ALTER YOUR BRAIN ( by making new neuronal synaptic connections). The problem is that it is hard to wrap ones mind around the existence of a “mind”.
Contrary to previously held beliefs the brain is quite plastic. Neurones and synaptic connections are formed or lost over a lifetime. A new memory is a new synaptic connection. Our “mind” or personality is then determined by how the brain is wired at a given moment.
The brain wiring is affected by “thoughts” about our experiences and the environment. We are what we think. Connection to CVD is via the HPA axis and the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system.
The brain consumes a lot of oxygen and energy and unfortunately will bring us back to the topic of diet. Everything is connected, the brain is part of the body.
Dear me! WHO is the vegan? Where are the vegans promoting veganism? If you mean me – stop moaning! I’ve got all the Noakes Books – followed HFLC for YEARS – ten years in fact. I have a husband who is on so many medications, I think they will kill him faster than his heart/diabetes will. People here are trying to learn. If you are upset because I have suggested that Western Society eats too much factory farmed meat, we do. I have managed to get my head out of the sand. I am dead against factory farming – and you should be too. We were huge meat eaters – biltong, boerewors, braais and all that living in Africa. But food has changed. Factory farms are new. And now you can buy anything – ANYTHING – at any time, imported, pre-prepared, commercialised, altered by factories to be more delicious, last longer, smell better, and allure consumers. I’m not the only one who ‘sees’ this. This situation concerns all of us here. And Tim Noakes who faces persecution for bringing up the topic of food at all.
I seldom ‘speak’ here, but I learn from reading other people’s comments – and follow the links they post. I have respect for every person here who is sharing their small nugget. I learn.
If you have a problem finding YOUR nugget in all the comments, simply use ‘find’ Bill or Oz in your browser, and stop complaining.
I have nothing against vegans, or being vegan. I do not like those vegans who become very aggressive and, at times, violent in pursuit of their aims. I would very much welcome vegans onto this site to discuss the science. I do not want this site to be an echo chamber – I welcome sharp discussion and disagreement.
I think I’m annoyed because I’m not a vegan! But I was sharing that our experiment switching to McDougall “Starch Solution” is working for us. So HFLC is not the only way. I think the “Starch Solution” is lopsided and that is why we have fish once a week and eggs once a week. And our HbA1c’s will show proper science as a result – or maybe not? As for people being off topic – I signed the petition, shared it on my social media and with my family who did the same. All our comments could have been simply “Shared!” – or rants about the persecution of doctors. But you made the point so clearly, what more is there to say? I don’t know what you can do about the comments. I would think a lot of your followers also read your blog for the comments. No one HAS to read the comments.
I would like to repeat – I am NOT a vegan promoting veganism. Perhaps we were eating too much meat on HFLC? Or too few vegetables? Or eating too much? Or we are currently suffering from placebo? But the “Starch Solution” experiment has been totally surprising, and I don’t want to knocked off the roll we are on….
Thank you for responding to my angry post.
You are talking to a retired organic farmer who among a range of crops such as garlic, saffron, vegetables, garlic, apples, pears, nashis, apricots, plums etc farmed cattle only in paddocks.
I was a farmer from 1985 till 2015. In retirement aged 70, I still garden organically.
If you had looked at all for my comments over the past year as Bill in Oz, you Last Furlong would already know this. But you have not and so write in complete ignorance about me.
Now, I was for some years a vegetarian. I was for a short while even a vegan. But I came to the conclusion that the resulting high carb diet with it’s high load of sugars was damaging to my health. I became overweight. I developed various cardio issues which the quacks proposed to ‘relieve’ ( not cure ) with such medications as statins..
I gave the quacks and their poisons the flick and changed my diet and lifestyle. I am again fit & healthy. I enjoy my dairy foods especially cheeses real yogurt, cream & butter. I enjoy tuna and salmon and other fish in my meals. I enjoy lamb chops which here is Oz are exclusively free range pastured. I enjoy the odd cut of good organic beef. I enjoy eating eggs, again from pastured chooks. I also enjoy fruit and sourdough style whole grain rye or oat breads. I enjoy virgin pressed olive oil and coconut oil for cooking foods. I enjoy eating lots of salads. Ninety percent Lindt dark chocolate is a daily treat. So is a pot of coffee with tumeric added to the plunger. So is tea, whether black, green or chai. I enjoy the odd glass of red wine preferably Malbec from Argentina.
i avoid white breads etc & all, sugar loaded foods such as beer and coke & pepsi. I also avoid industrial seed oils such as canola, sunflower, cotton seed oil etc. If you knew the actual toxic industrial processes used to make them you would too.
But there is NO one size cures all in this life. Now that is what works for me, with my genetic background and my dietary history and gut microbiome.
You must find what works best for you & your husband to give you long life and long health.
But frankly I doubt that being vegan is the answer for you. As Dr k says, you will meet sharp discussion & disagreement. And I have here been deliberately sharp & to the point.
Now I propse that we return to the subject of Dr K’s post which is the abusive & unjust treatment being meted out to Professor Tim Noakes.
Spot on, Bill…just the job for my diet these days too. Remember though, the controversy about Prof Noakes started out with his updated dietary advice. It has now expanded to highlight the dreadful scale of injustice and oppression towards him by exceedingly wealthy businesses worried about the risk to the profits they make from bad food. We can’t get away from discussing food on this blog, as I see any and every topic returning to food/diet. This just shows how important many of us are viewing the impact on our health that food has. I shudder at what I considered to be good food, starting around the mid 1970s, and now have to re-educate my adult offspring that all was not as it ought to have been in their teenage years.
I think it is generous-spirited of Dr K to allow us to keep harping on about our individual food preferences…..despite the fact we niggle a few the readers. I have had to accept that some aspects of dietary advice that I passed on ( as a Registered Nurse) are well out of date. Thank goodness I have found this site….it has been my salvation over recent years.
(Just be thankful we don’t get into politics and religion here, or the blog would no doubt implode)
Bill,
Your are on my side of the fence!
McDougall pays tribute to Walter Kempner and his rice diet. Personally, I am horrified at the thought of a diet of white rice, white sugar, and fruit juice, but the fact is, it works. Many people have recovered from T2D and other conditions on this diet. Note that Kempner did not recommend it as a diet for life, but as a curative diet that you gradually weaned yourself off of when your body was well again.
The thinking behind it was that the body found it easier to digest proteins and calories from the rice diet than from a normal diet, and thus had energy to spare which could be applied to healing. Sounds crazy to me, but you have to respect the documented cures.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/2013/12/31/walter-kempner-md-founder-of-the-rice-diet/
Jennifer, I know I am as guilty as many here with comments that involve some aspect of diet & CVD.
However I believe that we should respect what Dr K is trying to do here : Try and get us to pay attention to the other factors and in hs words ” play on the other playing fields”.
So in recent posts Dr K has discussed :
1 :the importance of sunshine and Vitamin D
2: the importance of magnesium – especially magnesium which can be absorbed easily.
3 : the importance of living a life full of good positive social ‘experiences’. God I hate that jargonistic modern way of saying something so bloody simple : be friendly, take care of others, and be part of your community. We are social animals.
None of these is about diet. But inevitably diet after a day or so seems to dominate our thinking again.
Maybe if Dr k can manage it, he should set up a second parallel blog which simply allows people to make diet & CVD related comments in a continuous discussion. This would provide a dedicated space for folks who with a diet focus or obsession. 🙂
Meanwhile this blog posts could continue but with the expectation that diet comments are not welcome or allowed unless introduced by Dr K himself.
Bill, you are quite right. However, I inevitably link magnesium intake with the food I prepare, although I use trans dermal oil and bath soaks. As to vitamin D, I incorporate much via food, but, oh dear, living in the North East of England, and having a north facing kitchen ( my play pen) there is not much I can do regarding sunshine!
I am searching for ways to improve B12,(extrinsic factor), either via food or supplementation, but this surely depends on the intrinsic factor…. of which I am surely deficient at my age. (70). This comment surely belongs on the previous blogs about vitamins and minerals, but we appear to have moved on from that issue)
We are a 3 dimensional jig saw puzzle, which keeps changing the goal posts( now there’s mixed metaphors), as we age. I will keep plodding on, tweeking lifestyle to suit good stuff I learn on here every week.
Professor Noakes has been an inspiration, being so proud and brave, standing up for his beliefs. I wish him well.
Jennifer at age 70 ( which I also am ) our skin is not as effective at manufacturing Vitamin D3.
So even though it is Summer here now with lots of sunlight I still take a 10,000 IU capsule every evening before bed ..Iherb sells a container of Healthy Origins with 360 capsules at a reasonable price…Good for a year ! Other online supplement providers may do even better…
I’ve done this for years along with K2..No osteoporosis at all..
A fe years ago a good friend also in her late 60’s started developing osteoporosis..I suggested D3 & K2.. Recently she was retested..Her bone density has improved, not worsened with added years as is normal..
Bill, Tim Noakes is being persecuted for his views on diet, so the subject is hardly a major digression.
As Dr K made clear, he is being persecuted by the high carb diet nutritional dictators in HPCSA in South Africa. It is the fact of being persecuted which is offensive and wrong…
“Enough is Enough” Dr Gary Fettke
https://isupportgary.com/articles/enough-is-enough-dr-gary-fettke
very sad
now 20676 signed as at 22 Feb @ 08:45 GMT
Wife and I have signed
20803 and climbing @ 08:48 GMT
“I would very much welcome vegans onto this site to discuss the science. I do not want this site to be an echo chamber – I welcome sharp discussion and disagreement.”
Thank you Dr.K, that is one of the main reasons people enjoy your blog and post their tuppence worth. You are one of a very small number of Dr/bloggers who can handle contrarians of all shapes and sizes…i would personally put that down to your being scots..(!)
Och aye
Cameron,
I agree! I often find the comments here from vegetarians but mor seldom from vegans inspiring.
I’ve got nothing against veg(etari)ans per se, in fact I have both in my family, and I have tried being both, which turned into a personal health disaster.
What I despise is the types who embed themselves into blogs and twitter accounts posting attacks and bent science. I regard is as a given that meat WILL be taxed, and in a couple of decades probably be made illegal, and the results on health and the environment will NOT be what the Guardian claims.
Like Gary Fettke I eat a vegan diet along with my meat, poultry, game and fish. That seems to work. What I don’t eat are largely grains and industrially produced Omega 6 seed oils, or processed “food” made from them and additives.
Chris C, surely we all know to disregard 95% of what the Guardian publishes ?
I used to buy it as a printed weekly here in Oz because it was my major go to paper for clear informed articles about the world.
Now it’s target demographic is “the green, the young, the concerned & especially the female.”…
No value at all to an old fart like me. 🙂
Been there done that. I have evolved in an entirely different direction. Have they actually written anything about Noakes? Or Fettke? You might think that the persecution of ideas was right up their street.
Goodness, this discussion has become interesting! I am a long time reader of Weston Price, practiced LCHF until recently, was happy eating 2 meals a day. I don’t know the theory of the starch doctor mentioned above, and I would like to, to understand what he is saying.
But when I got the cancer some time back, I had to switch to 3 meals a day because some meds or supplements say to take it with meals, 3 times per day. I came across much advice to stay away from meat, red meat in particular, and more than meat, to stay away from dairy. At first I ignored it, but I have gotten a bit more serious, and also have spent quite a bit of time watching the many videos on the site Chrisbeatcancer . com
He also has interviewed a couple of these docs or researchers who promote the plant based diet. The thing is, these interviews are of all sorts of people, very real people, who were mostly terminal, and who turned their disease around by eating a very simple, fruit and vegetable juice diet with varying degrees of cooked vegetables and perhaps other foods or grains. There is some real science behind this. For one thing, I’m sure many of them were eating a crap diet. Another thing is eating a lot of these plants may overwhelm the body with certain cancer fighting compounds. For example, a few have cured themselves eating 5 pounds of juiced carrots a day. One of them said she still ate meat and ice cream (not recommended but that is what she did). Another point is that if you simplify your diet and eat a lot of juices and raw foods, the burden on the digestion is eased considerably. Fruit and vegetable juices are almost pre-digested. This is important if you’re fighting something and trying to give more energy to the immune system, as I understand the digestiontakes about 30% of the bodily energy.
Meanwhile, in addition to cancer loving sugar, I’ve also read that it likes iron (red meat) and protein. Then, too, I have (mostly) given up dairy at least for now because there really are growth stimulaters and hormones, and that’s in the natural stuff. It’s turning out that a lot of cancers respond to estrogen, not just many breast cancers.
One reason I like Chris is that he gives a really balanced approach. He promotes plant based and juicing, but he also mentions frequently that you need a life change, need to ask yourself why you got cancer and change everything, deal with emotions and resentments and learn to forgive, and he also admits that he now eats some grass fed meat and I think some other animal foods because his body needs it. He talks a lot about stress, and that stress can get your hormones out of whack.
I’m wondering if a total clean up of a life that involves a long while (a year?) on very simple foods and fruits and vegetables, might be a good thing even though not sustainable for a lifetime?
I suggest you read this article with exactly the opposite point of view.I have read that cancer cells rely preferentially on sugars to thrive and spread.. So eating a low carb diet will help treat cancer…
http://roguehealthandfitness.com/can-low-carbohydrate-diet-prevent-treat-cancer/
Of course it’s up to you to become well informed and make your own decisions
To my heart I notice that almost 25 000 have signed the petition in support of prof Noakes.
I like the concept of ‘to my heart.’
And, this blog has made it to Facebook!
http://healthimpactnews.com/2018/scottish-doctor-wants-world-to-know-what-is-happening-to-south-african-doctor-being-attacked-for-high-fat-diet-advice/
Anna,
My take on cancer is that it is a lot you can do to cure it yourself with a broad brush. Read – alternatives without side effects, dietary actions and supplements of different kinds. I would do it myself. Just “Google”!
Ketogenic diet is the base here.
Goran, you can be sure that I am and have been doing that. I have several websites and many books. I am not doing nothing. I’m also not doing chemo.
Oh, and yes, some good reports are starting to come in about the ketogenic diet starving cancer. This is where I am a bit confused. So many have reported the opposite, going vegan and juicing and lots of raw fruits and vegetables. In my opinion, probably not healthy forever but might be good for a while.
I am pondering the possibility that either might work. That what may hinder healing from cancer (and lots of other problems) is that our diets are too rich and that we can eat what we want when we want it. All the meat, all the dairy, yet lots of carbs and sugar, all at the same time, year after year. Minimal exercise even for those who exercise at their pleasure.
Anna, you might find Jason Fung’s series on cancer and nutrients interesting –
https://idmprogram.com/cancers-seed-and-soil-cancer-11/
This is for sure a Kafka world. There are now three guys from a society who are going to absolve themselves. However, the implications of their decisions are astronomic.
The pressure from Big Pharma in the background must be enormous.
If you follow what Marika Sboros is reporting directly from the hearing room the arguing is for sure in the Kafka spirit.
https://twitter.com/MarikaSboros?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Ffoodmed.net%2F
To smartersig; you can surely be a vegetarian and adhere to LCHF. The inflamed spot is evidently the saturated fats versus the PUFAs and there is on this “tiny” spot an incredible Big Pharma, Big Agro world at stake and this is what this trial is all about in essence.
Earlier today I read through Marika’s tweets from the most recent trial. At the same time Trump was on the TV news in the background. I began to worry that someone had slipped me some bad acid and I had ended up in an alternative reality.
One thing I noted throughout all the trials was the almost complete absence of science, or common sense, in the prosecution’s “case” and the almost total lack of competence shown by Ajay Boopchand. It’s almost as if they expect to be believed because of who they are, not what they do. To anyone in the least rational they are shooting themselves in the foot, recursively, toe by toe by toe.
I could not leave without making one last point. By his own admission Tim Noakes is pretty close to actually being a Vegetarian or Pescetarian. He eats little meat and fish but lots of Veg and fat. (no I did not make this up, they came from his lips in a long presentation I have just watched)
Maybe he read the following study and the effect of plant based high fat on APOB
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19506174
Smartersig. Please stay…many of us appreciate your contributions. Just as we are advised to eat a varied and colourful selection of foodstuffs, so our minds need to be fed with ideas of all persuasions, even if to merely consolidate our own views.
Hello Smartersig
Had a look at the study you quoted.
Emphasis seemed to be on the lowering of weight and cholesterol. Who having read The Great Cholesterol Con, Doctoring Data, and all 46 episodes of the current series would want to?
About Tim Noakes, where you suggest he eats much like you do, are we talking of the same Tim Noakes? I know he used to be high carbs/ low fat but had a Road to Damascus moment.
Here’s a link to an article about what he eats, meat fish dairy etc;
https://www.health24.com/Diet-and-nutrition/News/What-Tim-Noakes-eats-20140520
But the other diet was crap. This doesn’t tell us anything.
Apologies wrong study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2989112/
Smartsig,
That is an extremely interesting comment concerning Prof Noakes. Especially the part about apoB.
I am most interested – was this live? I perceive not. So do you have a url of the presentation to share?
Thanks most appreciated.
You have to get pretty near to the end during question 1hr 37 mins
Enjoy the talk, he comes across as a very likeable guy
Thanks
An interesting video… And yes he does come across as a likeable bloke with a keen sense of humour..
thanks smartersig for Tim Noakes video
A classic battle between a mature mind and educated ( full of information) but immature minds
Bill In Oz; speaking as an omnivore, your diet looks absolutely fine and attractive to my eyes. Better yet, you have all that sunshine too.
@thelastfurlong : I have spent some time reviewing the “high starch” comments and discussion that you initiated a few days ago.
1: This post by Dr. K was published on the 20th of February. It’s focus is Professor Tim Noakes in South Africa and the unfair and abusive treatment being handed out to him by the HPCSA. The persecution by HPCSA was inititiated by certain members of the body following on from a comment he made on Twitter. HPCSA is it’s bizarre & twisted logic decided this amounted to offering a patient consult over the internet.
2: On the 21st you made a long comment about how ignorant another commentator was in his comment about diet. And how well you are doing on a high starch diet after previously being on a high fat/low carb diet.
You also made the following comments about eating meat :
“I HAVE to reply to your comment, for it is made in ignorance. We are not vegan, although I do feel we (humanity) will have to face our greed for meat as a terrible cruelty against animals, and we are producing a product degraded by the use of antibiotics and cruelty, that, in the end might be bad for us. …………We haven’t missed the meat…I don’t know what is “right” or “wrong”, but there IS a huge surge against eating meat, especially amongst younger people – mostly on ethical grounds.”
Reading this I think it fair to assume you are at least vegetarian on ‘ethical grounds’ at least..
3: There then followed a discussion on the 21st of February between you & 5 other commentators on the blog all about diet related matters with virtually nothing about the post issue of Tim Noakes being persecuted by HSCSA..
4: On the 22nd I made this comment :
“Dear Me, Dr Kendrick posts a blog about Dr Tim Noakes 2 days ago.. And now with 107 comments it’s again been hijacked by diet comments – including a vegan keen to get us all eating a high carn diet..Good Grief Charlie Brown !”
Having read more closely all your comments about what you eat, it is clear that you are not vegan. And maybe not vegetarian though if you are serious about the ethical aspects of this issue, I confess to being completely perplexed…
However this misses the driving point of my comment which was to criticise the the blog being hijacked by diet comments which was indeed what had happened.
5: Within 30 minutes of my comment appearing you wrote a reply a strongly worded angry comment clearly directed at me stating you are not a vegan and defending your right to post comments about diet, HFLC, a high starch diet etc.. And making sure we all knew that this high starch diet was saving you & your husbands lives from chronic ill health…. And so on & so forth…
Ummmmm….
6 Dr K then wrote a reply stating that vegans ere welcome to comment on this blog provided they discussed the science and ( my words ) did not drag us though the whole ethical argument ‘swamp’ again..
You replied by saying ” I would like to repeat – I am NOT a vegan promoting veganism. Perhaps we were eating too much meat on HFLC? Or too few vegetables? Or eating too much? Or we are currently suffering from placebo? But the “Starch Solution” experiment has been totally surprising, and I don’t want to knocked off the roll we are on.”
So I think we all now know that you are not a vegan or a vegetarian. But attempting to gain good health by an experimental high starch diet as proposed by McDougal…This is not something that I will ever try but others have done and researche dit. There is a long article by Denise Minger on her blog which discusses the science of this here :
7 : After all this I think I should repeat what I have said here before : We are all genetically different. We all have different ‘dietary cultural histories’. If a human group in a particular area adopts and stays with a particular diet, the group will evolve & adapt over time – hundreds, thousands of years. (This also involves the individuals who cannot adapt being weeded out. ) And finally it depends on our own individual gut microbiome. And remember our microbiome can be changed quite radically and quickly by what we eat, by disease, and by medicines ) eg. antibiotics)…
8 : From which I have come to realise flows this most important conclusion :
NO ONE Diet is best for all people.
Which largely means what works for you does not for me.
Which makes long winded heated arguments about diet and CVD a distraction and an irrelevance ‘here’….
I can just tell what works for me. You can just tell what works for you. Perhaps Dr Kendrick will take up my suggestion that he start a Blog focused on diet issues where that can happen peacefully.
Now I wonder how the discussion of Tim Noakes, Gary Fetttke, Marianne De Massi, etc etc is going.
Bill,
Apart from saying it’s a bloody disgrace what they’re dong to Tim Noakes, you’ve signed the petition, Big Pharma *grumble grumble*…, there’s not a lot more you can say on the topic of this post.
But Dr Kendrick’s blog is on CVD particularly and health generally, and I for one like to hear about positive health results from easily-applicable action, even if they don’t affect CVD.
Plus Dr Kendrick is always saying to look out for the facts that disprove the theory. And the high-starch diet is certainly an exception that proves the LCHF rule. So I personally wouldn’t object to someone putting forward a contrarian position that is based on personal experience (as opposed to blindly quoting some “authority”). Just as long as they don’t go on and on and on about it ;o)
Thank you for your summary. I will remove myself from posting about what seems to be working for us – for us vitally alive old people – NOT “chronically ill”! The Starch Solution is (supposedly) for heart conditions which husband has and why I got to reading this blog in the first place. Heart conditions. It’s simply an experiment. I am not against eating meat that has been humanely raised.
As for Tim Noakes – The problem is that science cannot come to a conclusion. HFLC eating was trashed when we started it. Now it is promoted on BBC’s Dr Moseley’s programs and the UK Diabetic Society. The moment I mentioned Dr McDougall, someone ‘exposed’ him as a crazy. But Dr McDougall supports what he says with science! It shouldn’t matter what someone ‘believes’ about food – there should be science to support it.
It’s the science that is confused – if not corrupt!
The nub of the situation is, we can’t believe ‘science’ when it comes to diet. Noakes and Fettka are not having their science accepted. Dr McDougall and all the ‘plant based’ crowd are not have their science accepted either. The current guidelines are being challenged from all sides by to-eat-meat and not-to-eat-meat people. But those who have vested interests in keeping things the way things are are already in power. The economy for the status quo is already in place, as are drug companies and millions of pre-programmed doctors. The vested interests need to stop the spread of new ideas about eating to hold onto their power. THEIR science is the only RIGHT science.
As the situation stands now, I think the persecution of insubordinate doctors will go on – and on – and on. With or without petitions!
There will be others….
It has always been that someone is burnt at the stake.
Brave men – the lot of them!
Ubuntu.
All good !
You might find Denise Minger’s articles worth reading.. She has published a range of science based discussions on all these issues… She started off as a vegan and then evolved towards a high fat/clow carb eater but then backed away from that somewhat as the science becomes clearer…
Wow – I have just read the Denise Minger article, and I can’t wait for her part 2, which she says will provide some sort of explanation for these extraordinary results!
I am tempted to wonder if there is some sort of massive placebo effect might be involved in many diet studies. There obviously isn’t any way to blind such studies, and could it be that anyone following a really intrusive diet, is going to improve as a result?
@ Bill in Oz – thanks for wonderful link you shared! Did you read it? It’s worth struggling through it – very long ..good science! Explains much.
Oh yes ! I have struggled through it about three times now…
I love her writing because it is science based and she is willing to admit her own failings and revise her published views with a detailed explanation….
You can watch her give a briefer video presentation of this work below. The HCLF critics may want to weep afterwards
This link does not work for me.
Ok – I got it! Thanks
Thanks for the link Smartersig.. Her remarks about Carbolysis & Ketosis being two ends of the nutrition spectrum, ( which are both healing ) and the unhealthy ‘swampland’ in between, is an interesting concept. I also like her presentation.
I have also read her blog account of Lester Morrison’s work which she skipped over quite a bit in the video. It is worth checking out.
PS I am not weeping. 🙂
It did not go unoticed by me that Denise Minger hinted that at the two extremes of Carbosis and Ketosis there is some improvement in health. Surprise surprise, I have been saying this all along, I stated on previous blogs that although I am not convinced by Sat fat is fine argument I do not think it is the elephant in the room. I cannot recall if it was Minger or someone else who hypothesised that perhaps if someone is not insulin resistant high sat fat/ low carb can incur benefits especially if they have been on a high processed carb western diet, however perhaps if and I say if, sat fat blocks insulin from access and allowing cells to receive fuel then anyone already insulin resistance will see better blood sugar levels by default but their underlying insulin resistance will not be corrected. As always my stance is that sat fat could be OK but it could also be a cause of insulin resistance so I prefer to be fish and plant based low fat. By the way I also noticed that the more recent meta analysis showing sat fat is not harmful for heart disease has been trashed. Does anyone have counter arguments to this ?
I always like to ask the questions. Why would it – how could it. Why would increased saturated fat intake cause insulin resistance – how could it. Fat metabolism has little, or nothing, to do with insulin. The only real connection is in the liver. If you eat a high carbohydrate diet, the insulin level rises – in order to convert the sugars obtained from the carbs in the diet – into fat. Saturated fat. So, you could say that a high carb diet will increase insulin, then the saturated fat level in the body, but there is no connection between saturated fat and insulin, the other way round. Fats, any fats, are absorbed from the but, packed into chylomicrons, which are then sent directly into the bloodstream. Chylomicrons lose fat as they pass cells – mainly fat cells. They shrink down into chylomicron remnants and then removed from the circulation by the liver. None of this requires insulin. If saturated fat does no allow cells to receive fuel it must be through a mechanism as yet undiscovered.
I think the fat/IR connection probably occurs at the level of the mitochondria, see some of Peter’s highly technical stuff on hyperlipid – find the links on the right hand side to “physiological insulin resistance”.
Frankly saturated fat phobia makes little sense since the body produces it, even from carbs. Why would it be trying to kill itself? It would be just like making cholesterol to block its own arteries . . . oh wait . . .
Some of my current beliefs, based in part on Dave Feldman’s astonishing experiments, include that high LDL is a Good Thing when the particles are being used to transport fat (dietary or body fat) to be metabolised, but a Bad Thing when the body is locked into only metabolising carbs, and they stack up in the blood getting damaged. Likewise IR is a Good Thing when used for nutrition partitioning but a Bad Thing when it is permanently locked on.
Jan Kwasniewski had some bizarre ideas and some common sense, he called the mix of high fat and high carbs the “danger zone” and strangely that is the exact diet composition so many studies replicate, with minor variations on carbs vs. fat producing minor changes in outcomes. Once you go out to the extremes things get interesting. Personally I don’t produce enough insulin to be able to do the high carb low fat end of the continuum but it may work for the metabolically unbroken.
And In Other News, I just found out that Gerald Reaven died. We won’t see his like again – a fearsomely good scientist who kept his head down below the parapet which enabled him to continue working behind the scenes, discovering reality.
Its covered here, saturated fat increasing insulin insensitivity
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/What-Causes-Insulin-Resistance/
The sources cited are
H P Himsworth. The dietetic factor determining the glucose tolerance and senility to insulin of healthy men. Clinical Science 2, 67-94.
H P Himsworth, E M Marshall. The diet of diabetics prior to the onset of the disease. Clinical Science 2, 95-115, 1935. NA.
M Roden, T B Price, G Perseghin, K F Petersen, D L Rothman, G W Cline, G I Shulman. Mechanism of free fatty acid-induced insulin resistance in humans. J Clin Invest. Jun 15, 1996; 97(12): 2859–2865.
S Lee, C Boesch, J L Kuk, S Arsianian. Effects of an overnight intravenous lipid infusion on intramyocellular lipid content and insulin sensitivity in African-American versus Caucasian adolescents. Metabolism. 2013 Mar;62(3):417-23.
M Roden, K Krssak, H Stingl, S Gruber, A Hofer, C Furnsinn, E Moser, W Waldhausl. Rapid impairment of skeletal muscle glucose transport/phosphorylation by free fatty acids in humans.
M Krssak, K Falk Petersen, A Dresner, L Dipetro, S M Vogel, D L Rothman, M Roden, G I Shulman. Intramyocellular lipid concentrations are correlated with insulin sensitivity in humans: a 1H NMR spectroscopy study. Diabetologia. 1999 Jan;42(1):113-6.
J Shirley Sweeney. DIETARY FACTORS THAT INFLUENCE THE DEXTROSE TOLERANCE TEST A PRELIMINARY STUDY. JAMA Int Med, Dec, 1927, Vol 40, No. 6.
E W Kraegen, G J Cooney. Free fatty acids and skeletal muscle insulin resistance. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2008 Jun;19(3):235-41.
A T Santomauro, G Boden, M E Silva, D M Rocha, FR F Santos, M J Ursich, P G Strassmann, B L Wajchenberg. Overnight lowering of free fatty acids with Acipimox improves insulin resistance and glucose tolerance in obese diabetic and nondiabetic subjects. Diabetes. 1999 Sep;48(9):1836-41.
Smartersig I think that Denise Minger is a good researcher. However Dr bloody vegan Gregar is is once again a waste of my time…
He is a discredited source mate: DISCREDITED.. We had that long conversation about him & his vegan book a month or so ago here on this blog.
Even Denise Minger herself thinks he is a crock of s**t.
Saturated fat and intromyocellular trig’ formation and insulin resistance
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11679437
A longer read but reiterating the above
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/expphysiol.2006.033399/full
Perhaps we should refrain from calling Dr Greger names and just deal with the research
You seem happy to accept these papers at face value. I would recommend critical analysis. BTW I should perhaps point out that I try to stay away from the term insulin resistance as it is meaningless.
Dear Malcolm
I don’t have the competence to understand all the papers that are cited, and I cannot judge the capacities of the people who write them, so continuous paper citation is in my eyes a pollution of this board.
I understand that point. I do feel, however, that clinical studies are needed, at times. However, I spend a lot of time reading papers and there are massive problems with many of them. Quite often the abstract contradicts the findings, the methodologies are very strange. Often there is clear bias etc. etc. In many areas you can find a hundred papers stating one thing, and another hundred stating the opposite. Which is right, which is wrong?
Currently I am looking at endothelial transcytosis across the blood brain barrier. Even here, I find completely contradictory ‘facts’. LDL can be transported into the brain across the blood brain barrier (paper 1). LDL cannot be transported into the brain (paper 2). Can it, or can’t it? When even highly technical research, with few obvious variables, can be utterly contradictory, it becomes tricky.
I then find that I have to try and use logic.
Fact: endothelial cells control the movement of substances in and out of the brain
Fact: specialised brain cells (glial cells) synthesise cholesterol within the brain
Logic: The fact that there is a need for specialised cells designed to synthesise cholesterol in the brain, means that LDL (which carries cholesterol) cannot cross the blood brain barrier – otherwise it would. Ergo, papers that state LDL can cross the blood brain barrier are most likely to be wrong – in some way.
In short, I do not pay many or any attention to people throwing papers at me, unless they have fully read and criticised them. Otherwise we simply fall into a yes it can, no it can’t debate. I need to know how, and why.
Mr Chris. I have neither the desire or inclination to read the citations, except in rare instances. I do not consider the small space they take up on this blog as intrusive. I would not deny access for those who find them useful.
Hi smartersig, welcome back. Regarding the last reference:
“In conclusion, this investigation demonstrated that in the same lean, physically fit men, dietary-induced elevation of intramyocellular triglyceride and impairment of glucose tolerance/insulin sensitivity were similar after 67 h of low-CHO/high-fat diet and the same period of starvation. These findings may indicate that short-term dietary-induced IMTG accumulation and the concurrent development of insulin resistance in physically fit men are mediated largely by dietary CHO restriction rather than fat intake.”
Couple of observations:
– “impairment of glucose tolerance” could be better described as “glucose sparing under low insulin levels”
– “development of insulin resistance” only lasts while insulin is low, and is beneficial
– the saturated fat during fasting comes from animal source, your own adipose tissues.
– excess energy is stored as saturated fat irrespective of source ie. fat or carbs
I agree apart from the last bit. If you eat (excess) polyunsaturated fatty acids, they will be stored as polyunsaturated fatty acids.
With all due respect Dr Kendrick that is a terrible reply, stating that I should not take research at face value but critically read them, assuming I have not I would have accepted your reply more readily if you had said the above and then shot holes in the cited research, in fact I would be grateful. There is a tremendous inbalance on this blog between pro sat fat, animal protein on the one hand and whole food low sat fat plant based on the other. It is also evident that the latter get continually squashed with comments like ‘you are crazy’, ‘go and donate 8 pints of blood’ ‘Dr Greger is a crock of …’ ‘Stop citing scientific papers because I dont understand them’ and then finally, and this is my interpretation, anything that is not from my paradigm has simply not been read properly and I will accuse the poster of blindly posting studies. Pro meat/sat fat studies get posted with rounds of applause and thumbs ups whilst counter research gets met with statements not backed by reason but simply designed to rubbish the research by any means possible.
As I have said before I dont think sat fat is the biggest villain in this CVD argument but research the likes I have posted put it in the doubt box which is why I avoid.
I spend much of my life shooting holes in research. However, fully reading and understanding a single paper can take days. I have spent years looking at papers supporting the cholesterol/saturated fat hypothesis – years. I am not going to read ten more papers right now, because that would put me out of action for about three weeks.
What I am asking you is to explain how saturated fat causes problems. What is the mechanism? What is the metabolism of fat, digestion, absorption and suchlike. How are fats metabolised? What is the interaction between fats and insulin. Which fats are synthesized by DNL in the liver, and what is the source of fats synthesized in the liver…. that type of thing.
You do not ever answer questions like this, you only quote papers that support what you are saying. I will ask you to answer two things. What is the, direct, association between saturated fat consumption and a raised LDL level? Secondly, which type of fat is, primarily, synthesized in the liver during DNL?
If you can answer these questions, then we can start to begin useful discussions. Until then you are just saying you are right, and I am wrong, and vice versa.
Smartersig
On March 1 you sent a comment on insulin resistance with a link and citation of many papers that back it up. I don’ t have the time or the competence to weigh up those sources, so I have to make judgements on whose ideas to accept until they are shown to be wrong. Of course you are entitled to your views on saturated fat, but I think you are over-sensitive to the manner in which people disagree with you.
smartersig, your reply of 2/3/18 at 10:43 cited two research papers. You are right about not calling researchers names, at least on blogs or forums, but point one is, just because something has a pubmed reference it does not automatically confer credibility. As an example of a poor presentation, the abstract contains a sentence (and one of many of a similar style) “6-h hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic glucose clamp with concomitant infusion of Intralipid plus heparin.”. Well some people reading this blog, including possibly you, may know what this means without looking it up, but I and by far the larger proportion of people, have no idea what this means without extensive investigating.
This is an indication either of arrogance or ignorance on the part of the writer in not providing information that can be readily understood. Explaining things in such terms brings into question the understanding of the subject by the writer, or shows it is written by someone seeking to further their career rather than to inform.
I feel the need to expand.
Hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp technique: The plasma insulin concentration is acutely raised and maintained at 100 μU/ml by a continuous infusion of insulin. Meanwhile, the plasma glucose concentration is held constant at basal levels by a variable glucose infusion. When the steady-state is achieved, the glucose infusion rate equals glucose uptake by all the tissues in the body and is therefore a measure of tissue insulin sensitivity. The hyperinsulinemic clamps are often used to measure insulin resistance.
So, you feed in high level of insulin, then keep the glucose level up with a constant infusion of glucose. Then you start infusing lipid (directly) into the circulation. (The heparin is to stop the blood clotting). What exactly does this prove? how many people, consume food in this way?
This is the type of research that gets written up, and accepted, and quoted. I shall resist the urge to look into this more deeply.
Dr. K., thank you for the explanation. It is obviously a specialist field. These questionable indicators remind me of the vaccine – “antibodies = protection” assumptions, where if I understand correctly, antibodies may not give protection, and lack of antibodies don’t indicate susceptibility.
http://scienceandpublic.com/
The example quoted has
Common words: 33%, 4
Mid-Frequency words: 25%, 3
Rare words : 42%, 5
Suitability for general audience score: 46
Number Of Words: 12
A reader needs to understand 98% of vocabulary in a text to adequately comprehend the content.
It may help authors reduce the mumbo-jumbo if they put their proposed text through the above jargon buster and then found simpler words for those highlighted in red.
I am not interested in Sat Fat -> Cholesterol nor did I mention it. The studies are not really about this either. If Sat Fat did raise LDL it would not be of little concern to me. My posting was about Sat Fat and insulin sensitivity. I fully understand that you are busy, I did not post expecting you to read the papers and pick them apart. Having said that you dont have time for that kind of activity and understandably so, I dont expect you to rubbish my posting as an alternative, with an off the cuff remark.
As always, I have asked you direct questions, and you simply change the subject. Only once you start looking at fat metabolism in some detail can you then move on to discuss any connection between fat and insulin. Everything here is connected to everything else.
Smartersig, what a pity that a discussion which started out examining one of Denise Minger’s excellent talks on Youtube has deteriorated again into a I’m right & you are wrong slag fest.
You lie Greger. You have the right to like him if that is your ‘belief system’. But we had a very lengthy discussion about him and his promoting Veganism book only a month or so ago. I did the a lot of research & time examining his various arguments. They all fell over. I stand by my opnion of that book : It is a crock of poor unscientific s**t.
But despite this you have attempted to drag through that same argument again in this blog. In my book that is trolling.
You posted Denise Minger’s talk from Iceland about low fat diets. And I accept the truth about her views. Denise Minger bases her views on a thorough, critical , extensive reading of the scientific literature. Teasing apart what is happening. Her research is a good balance to the arguments of the high sat fat diet dictocrats. Her work is a service to us. But Greger ? He is not worth a pinch of salt or any more of my time.
If you want to cite evidence from Greger’s all vegan web site, it is not enough to just cite articles from there which accord with your preconceived point of view.
You have an obligation to read them thoroughly, digest them & examine the flaws in them & only then tell us about them, if they are still ‘worthwhile’ in your now informed opinion.
As Dr Kendrick has already said, this process takes a huge effort and a lot of time. It’s hard work.
Petro Dobromylskyj took a detailed look at “ultra low fat” eating and “Denise Minger’s idea of ‘carbosis’” here:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2015/10/protons-and-ultra-low-fat-once-more.html
Ms Minger was among those commenting on this posting.
Malcolm,
The sheer oddity of the Kempner diet, and the fact (I assume) that it helped diabetic patients, seems worth discussing, even if the mechanism isn’t known. I mean never mind the rice, that diet had added sugar (presumably sucrose)!
Denise suggests that there is something toxic about mild low-fat diets but that extreme low fat diets (with added sugar) AND extreme HFLC diets are beneficial. This in itself seems to contradict the idea that a varied diet is generally best.
Has anything like that ever been observed in animal studies? If the answer in NO, is it possible that consuming a fairly unpleasant diet with lots of assurance that it will be medically beneficial, results in a huge placebo effect?
Any, and all diets, will bring down blood sugar levels if you consume less calories than you metabolise. Most things become rather more simple to understand if you stop looking at everything through the prism of insulin/glucose – and nothing else. One of the least important functions of insulin is to bring down blood sugar levels. It is an energy storage hormone. If you eat a lot of sugar – more than you need for your energy needs – the insulin level will rise in order to drive de novo lipogenesis (DNL) in the liver. This allows glucose to be turned into saturated fat. Then to be removed from the liver and distributed around the body. However, if you eat less carb/sugar than you need for your energy needs, there is no need to convert the excess into fat, so the insulin level will stay low, as will the sugar level.
Also, if your body is busy storing excess fat in the diet, it will struggle more with excess sugar intake, as the excess energy is being stored away, with less room for the DNL fat to be dealt with. Thus, a high fat, high sugar diet will obviously raise blood sugar and triglycerides and insulin more than a high cab diet alone, or a high fat diet alone.
People become diabetic when they find it difficult to create new fat stores. Not because they are obese. This difficulty puts back-pressure on the energy storage system. This is why those with Beradinelli-Siep lipodystrophy syndrome (no adipose tissue) are all diabetic, despite having no fat cells, and are thus the leanest people on the planet.
I would just add that obesity is not a cause of type II diabetes. The inability to become more obese causes type II diabetes.
I know you addressed your comment to Malcolm, but I thought I might say that the rice and sugar diet might be fairly unpleasant as you said, but I thought that was only an initial eating regime. People on very low fat plant based diets are not eating unpleasant food at all. To suggest benefits are placebo must be an error, surely?
It would mean that medical porn on cigarette packs, would kill smokers if placebo/nocebo is THAT strong and could last for so long! It would make nocebo a crime.
Just thinking.
As I mentioned, husband and I have been trying LFHC. We have both just had HbA1c done. Husband is pleased with his and is reducing his insulin. I’m getting my results tomorrow.
Our food has not been unpleasant in any way. As I explained in my original comment, I started this experiment as a skeptic. Eating starch at every meal with no oil/fat/butter sounds dreadful, but we have become highly inventive! So if this is placebo – that would be amazing to me.
Getting back to the vendetta
signed = 27107 as at Fri 23 Feb @ 6:32 GMT
err 16:32 GMT
I believe this is relevant.
From Medpage Today: “Patients diagnosed at an earlier age with type 2 diabetes — and therefore with a longer duration of disease — had increased rates of all-cause mortality at any age, following an initial decline in the first 1-2 years after diagnosis, according to Lili Huo, MD, of the Beijing Jishuitan Hospital in China, and colleagues.”
Earlier diagnosis + longer medical intervention = increased mortality
Perhaps I am remiss in not mentioning that I certainly did sign the petition.
It is my opinion that bickering with other posters here detracts from this blog more than the occasional person who goes on a bit about something.
Smartersig, why do you speak of leaving? I’m sorry I said you were crazy some weeks back. It was meant to be funny-ish, in a Many a true word spoken in jest sort of way. What provoked it was when you told us what you ate for breakfast, including 5 walnuts. It’s a level of control and detail I find a bit unfathomable…do you ever have the morning when you say, Heck I’ll have a 6th walnut and damn the consequences?
Yet another off topic comment…..Big sigh !!!
But a question Dr Kendrick : Are you aware of the new research suggesting that mutations of cells in the bone marrow – ‘CHIP’ cells lines that supply a lot of the actual blood cells – may be a significant cause of heart disease ?
https://theconversation.com/chip-an-important-risk-factor-for-heart-attack-youve-probably-never-heard-of-91379
This does have the virtue that it does deal with CVD as a disease of the aging body…
And is not at all related to diet as far as I can see.
🙂
But Bill, your question is not quite on topic…how can you?
My question was directed to DR K. I am content to wait for Dr K’s response on this CHIP issue.
Cause, or association?
Dr K. That’s a good question. I’ve just looked at the original article in the Journal of New England Medicine from July last year. Here : http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1701719
And to be frank I cannot answer your question : the original article flashes so many numbers & statistics around that my mind is completely flummoxed…
But it is 5.00 am here..Too early for my brain to be functioning with any effectiveness. 😦
And I am not a stats man anyway..
There is this statement that CHIP cells are causal in the discussion.
“In four distinct studies involving human participants, we found that somatic mutations leading to CHIP had significant associations with the risk of coronary heart disease or early-onset myocardial infarction. In a murine model of atherosclerosis, the loss of Tet2 function in hematopoietic cells accelerated atherogenesis.
These results support several conclusions. First, the relationship between CHIP and coronary heart disease appears to be a causal one. Experimental manipulation of one of the genes that is most frequently mutated in CHIP — Tet2 — worsened atherosclerosis in mice. In humans, coronary events increased in relation to clone size, and there was also a dose–response relationship between clone size and atherosclerosis on imaging.
Second, mutations in multiple CHIP-associated genes were linked to coronary heart disease. We suggest that these mutations may increase the risk of coronary events owing to altered transcriptional output of macrophages. These cells mediate many inflammatory responses and prominently populate atherosclerotic plaques.25,26 In support of this model, we found that loss of Tet2 augmented the expression of inflammatory chemokines in macrophages that were exposed to native LDL, an effect that is similar to that in Tet2-deficient macrophages that were exposed to bacterial endotoxin.27″
There is also an interesting comment from another author stating that this study does at least
” this is is going to lead us to think beyond the lipids and statins”.
Another aspect to consider is whether these CHIP mutations are not actually caused by epigenetic factors of lifestyle and emotions. From what I read, science erred in thinking that the DNA is king when it’s not. Apparently our genetic expressions are flexible. Maybe these mutations are part of a causal chain but not its origin.
I hope someone can provide a plain English translation of the NEJM article. I am flummoxed by the very first sentence: “Clonal hematopoiesis of indeterminate potential (CHIP), which is defined as the presence of an expanded somatic blood-cell clone in persons without other hematologic abnormalities”
“Hematopoiesis” means blood-forming. A clone is an identical copy of something. So “clonal hematopoiesis” means “an identical copy of blood-forming” which makes no sense. “Expanded” means bigger. So are the clones abnormally large? According to the article they actually mean there are more of them, but in the accompanying illustration of a plaque some of the white cells are clearly larger than the others, so maybe they do mean bigger cells.
The article states “People with CHIP mutations were found to have almost double the risk of heart disease”. The moment I read “risk” I suspect they are referring to surrogate end-points such as cholesterol levels, not actual CVD. And I immediately start doubting the conclusions.
If I understand correctly, they surmise that the CHIP white blood cells have an increased tendency to infiltrate the artery walls and form plaques. Which suggests they may be able to engineer an anti-CHIP mutation which produces blood cells with a reduced tendency to infiltrate the artery walls and form plaques. So we might bleed to death through leaky arteries, but at least we won’t get heart attacks ;o)
Martin & Anna, I too hope that someone can provide a translation of this article…far too much bloody Greek for me..Here is my amateur attempt at a translation.
1 ‘Hematopoiesis’ I think refers to the process of cell division that generates blood cells…
2 : As you note a clone means an identical copy.
3 : So “clonal hematopoiesis” is referring to the process of cell division/generation, in the bone marrow which leads to blood cells being formed.. Blood cells in the blood have a relatively short ‘life span’- weeks perhaps.. And do not divide at all in the blood itself..It all happens in the bone marrow -especially in the marrow of our long bones.
4 “Expanded” I think refers to the greater number ( higher proportion ) of ‘abnormal’ blood cells being generated as well grow older.
5; Thus this research is suggesting that it is these abnormal blood cells ( CHIP cells) ’cause’ CVD.
Anna, I completely agree with you about “considering …. whether these CHIP mutations are not actually caused by epigenetic factors of lifestyle and emotions.”
Yes there is probably a chain of causation here and the CHIP cells are just another like in that chain or process…
I am reminded of Dr K’s emphasis on the paradoxical exceptions when something does NOT happen. And we know that CVD rates are far lower in some countries/cultures. ( Eg France ) And we know that CVD rates rise remarkably in times of acute stress. ( The countries of the former Soviet Union & Eastern bloc, post 1989. )
However this research merely states that the percentage of abnormal cells rises as we age. It does not look at the paradoxical exceptions. In fact it does not look at these issues at all. And is this thus incomplete.
But they may have discovered a previously un-examined piece of the puzzle and this piece has nothing to do with lipids or diet. And for that we should give thanks.
By the way, this research was reported in the UK’s Conversation web site last Friday. There were no comments for days. Now there are three comments by 2 people that are completely & utterly irrelevant. ( Putting in plugs for the USA based doctor Gundry’s diet cure for CVD…)
From which I guess we can conclude that the entire UK cardiology profession is completely ignorant & uninterested in this issue.
PS I am unable to comment on the Conversation. I was banned for making ‘politically incorrect’ comments about the sport of soccer in Australia back in May 2017…To which censorship I still raise the Australian one fingered salute of contempt !
But I go back occasionally to see if anything worthwhile has been written.
Martin I have been thinking about this paragraph which you wrote above
“If I understand correctly, they surmise that the CHIP white blood cells have an increased tendency to infiltrate the artery walls and form plaques. Which suggests they may be able to engineer an anti-CHIP mutation which produces blood cells with a reduced tendency to infiltrate the artery walls and form plaques.”
I think the science is already in that it is the mechanical stress & cortisol hormonal surges that lead to damage of the endothelium in the coronary arteries. Using layman’s language “cracks develop in the arterial walls’.
The body attempts to heal these cracks. If it did not we would bleed to death. If Vitatmin C is available it is used to form the collagen strands that bind up the internal wound in the artery. However as humans cannot make Vitamin C, the process is dependent on whether enough can be sourced in food or via supplements.
Mostly vitamin C is lacking or in short supply and in this situation (which applies for most of us ), the body uses other ingredients…such as blood cells, cholesterol and macrophage cells…
And so the Chip blood cells are part of this attempted healing process.
Bill,
The proposition is that the CHIP mutation leads to more atherosclerosis. They could mean more plaques, or bigger more damaging plaques. Caused by “inflammation”. This could mean more cracks in the artery walls, or more vigorous attempts by the white blood cells to repair them. It’s all very vague.
We should fully support professionals who tell the truth based on expertise and experience. What a pity that yet another ‘still, small voice’ of reason is being overwhelmed by an irrational fear of integrity.
Noakes said he was “really thankful” for all the support he had received throughout the case.
“There has been global support, more than 25 000 people signed a petition. I think that this case will ultimately be a turning point for the acceptance of this diet,” he said.
https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/judgment-reserved-in-tim-noakes-appeal-20180223
You may also like to write to Belinda Fettke. I have just done so to offer unconditional support as I’m sure they must feel under enormous pressure from the brown nosed ones.
AH Notepad
good idea tell us how?
I note Tim Noakes was very appreciative of the 25000+ petition
https://isupportgary.us16.list-manage.com/track/click?u=783d8b71b98669d14aa31c987&id=37d6e6182d&e=a906d9de4d
I came across this, they must feel under under what most of us would think intolerable pressure. So I found an address on the page and wrote.
Snap! Did so myself. She especially seems to be having a hard time at the minute. Disgusting behaviour! Why am I not surprised? Link is on Notepad’s post.
I am now thinking of those guys behind the curtains pulling the strings.
Are they complete cynics? In my mind they must be for how could they otherwise look into the mirrors in the morning and watch their own faces?
What a world we are living in!
Science is truly on the chopping block!
My own luck is that the statistics tell me that I don’t have to endure this so many more years.
My wife got scared reading my latest post because I am not the least suicidal and it was written in a light mood. We both believe that I will become a centennial.
🙂
I am happy to sign the petition for Professor Noakes and have made a small donation enough for two. I have read all the comments today as I had a rotten week due to my own stupidity but all good now. The petition is now over 30,000 I am trying not to be angry over this I was happy with the first decision and hoped this was over but, like the statin debates in Australia in the past there will always be someone frothing at the mouth to prove they are right and to take away other’s choices to make informed decisions about anything. We all have to live on this planet and we all should have the right to have access to knowledge that may help us live the best and healthiest lives possible for many that right is removed by things like dictatorships, war, economic misery etc. which is appalling for those folk; but, to remove our rights due to personal aggrandisement, economic greed, pride, and a complete lack of humility is too much! If we could follow the money trail I do not think there would be any surprises Big Everything would be at the end. I am grateful for this site as I have learned a lot, read a lot of differing viewpoints which I appreciate we all think differently and have lived different lives; our genetics are all unique and therefore any diet regime we might try may need to be tweaked.
I would just like to make the point in defence of the GP or hospital doctor they work very hard to become doctors they hit the hospital as Medical Students and if they pass the next exams as Interns for the first time they are called Dr they are used for a lot of rotten duties and pushed around and often more often than we might think bullied by all the levels up to and including the Consultants and all the time they are not being encouraged to think outside the box of whatever is currently the accepted ‘guidelines’ or ‘best practice’ is what they must accept, they are tired and poorly nourished working mostly about 80hrs per week they have a quite high suicide level among other professional graduates. Once they are out practicing the same things continue, long hours, huge stress levels, poor diet and the constant pressure to follow the mandated course how difficult it must be and amazing that any to lift their heads up above and see the wrongs let alone to have the courage to try to do something about it. Bravo to the few!
Further I noted last time and again this time that we have allowed ourselves to become a little irritated with others comments, it is not good for our heart health to become aggravated or upset science is now telling us that we must try to be happier, grateful and peaceful I am not going any further as I expect Dr Kendrick will address these issues at another time.
Topsygirl. When newly qualified Doctors hit their first appointments in February and August each year, my advice was for them to make friends with the permanent, senior Nurse, who would know the idiosyncrasies etc of consultants, and their particular ‘rules’.
Knowledge is power; to be for-warned is to be for-armed, and the medical knowledge gained in medical school does little to prepare them to combine the art and science of medicine.
In the modern day our hospitals are top-heavy with Bank and Agency Nurses, so the new doctors are missing out on much crucial knowledge, adding to their stress.
Jennifer you are absolutely correct a Doctor who builds good working relationship with the nursing staff always has someone to back him or her and even into private practice they will always have their back. It is far more beneficial for a young Doctor to be thought of and referred to as a Pet rather than that arrogant registrar. As an admin. person in a hospital over the years I have noted these attitudes with interest and sometimes with some amusement. Just recently I attended a surgery to have my skin checked and as the Doctor was performing the biopsy the RN was mouthing over his shoulder “If you need more surgery have him do it he is the best” so even the patient benefits from those good working relationships.
topsygirl,
I think most of us realise that the problem does not lie with GP’s or junior doctors. They have to learn so much, and they can’t possibly be specialists about everything.
I think consultants could do more, because they live and breath their specialities all day long, and they could read articles such as this amazing list of studies showing that high blood cholesterol (or high LDL) is actually positively correlated with longevity – then ask themselves why precisely we should be trying to lower it?
http://vernerwheelock.com/179-cholesterol-and-all-cause-mortality/
However, the real blame lies at the level of research, and particularly at those who apply pressure on researchers to conform.
I blame the modern fad of meta-studies for much of the problem, because while in an ideal world these may statistically justified, they act as a perfect smokescreen that hides dodgy data of various sorts.
David I was not suggesting that junior doctors could in anyway do anything to make change what I was trying to point out is that their very training is such that they would be discouraged from ever ‘rocking the boat’ on any subject that has not been approved by the authorities. As to Consultants Mr Gary Fettke is a Consultant Orthopaedic Surgeon in a public hospital who trains junior doctors he tried to do something and apparently succeeded he helped his patient to stabilise his diabetes to such a degree that his other leg was saved he did not use witchcraft in fact by his own statement he used the clinical trial conducted by the CSIRO Australia’s peak scientific body on diabetes and diet and asked Pete Evans to collaborate on some recipes from that study so his patient could be helped to health. He was reported, vilified and even his children’s kitten was threatened he is not ever permitted to discuss diet with any patient, if he gives an address the transcript must be vetted and approved by the board how did this happen – he rocked the boat, how would his junior doctors have felt to see this happen to their Consultant and to know who caused it this a punishing training system that requires absolute obedience if you have any desire to ‘get on’ and find a worthwhile place in the industry. I visited Belinda Fettke’s site yesterday and found the following articles published so include the web addresses they are both interesting, informative and shameful they give insight as to how this will continue unless something major changes. I am only an admin officer in the hospital system but I have a keen interest in people and my interest began the first year I worked in a hospital, a young doctor in fact he was the Senior Surgical Registrar almost qualified was suspended for being unfit for duty on 3 occasions I had only met him once and remembered him as a pleasant young man within the next few days he was dead. Eighteen months later the Coroner was scathing that he had worked 123 hours in the last week of his employment, had not been permitted to have enough leave to recover from a major family tragedy, that on the first occasion of being unfit had not been gathered up at that point and helped, many Consultants made comments in the media to the point that if they had qualified under similar circumstances and there must have been an element of weakness etc. The Coroner to his credit returned a verdict ‘death by mis-adventure’ rather than suicide much better for his wife and child, I still remember him even I hardly knew him.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/16/medical-training-is-a-tragedy-waiting-to-happen-we-shouldnt-be-silent-about-it?CMP=soc_567
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/06/how-doctors-treat-doctors-may-be-medicines-secret-shame
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/26/i-wasnt-surprised-by-four-corners-bullying-in-medicine-is-as-old-as-the-profession
Sorry Bill to be off topic
When Evidence-Based Medicine isn’t
http://sci-hub.hk/10.1111/jep.12147
I see GPs as needing to know a bit about everything – probably they know as much about rare diseases they have never seen in practice, but might tomorrow, as they do about commonplace conditions. I no longer think it is possible for a consultant to know *everything* about a single speciality. The problem comes from the people who choose what “evidence” they are and are not told.
Prof Noakes is on the BBC 4 food programme now
BBC Radio 4 Sunday 25th Feb—-The Food Programme. re Prof Tim Noakes
Thank you, Agg and Jennifer. For those who missed it, the interview can be heard online and the programme is repeated tomorrow on BBC Radio 4 at 3.30 p.m.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09smnhd
A very interesting program!
Thank you!
At the end of the program it was pointed out that it was all about your gut biome and how differently your blood sugar levels responded to the carbs you eat. What was not mentioned was though that insulin is a fat storing hormon which probably explains why we gain these extra pounds and deteriorate our health with age.
The metabolic syndrome and T2D (which Noakes’ himself seriously feared) may be the crucial turning point which makes it utterly important to switch to LCHF. At least this was the case for Prof. Noakes as for me and my wife.
By the way, 32 000 have now sign the petition to support Noakes.
What is the best diet for humans
Now also on YouTube
chris c thanks for the BBC link. Damn nuisance that the BBC want you to sign in in order to personalise your experience. ie tell you about things you’re not interested in but they think you should be. However here is a youtube link https://youtu.be/QmH2BliXhuU
Re the Doctor In The House video linked by Steve,
I thought it was pretty great, especially as much of his advice to this family was similar to what Noakes would have recommended, but he also, at a restaurant when teaching the family how to eat out, told the waiter they did not want any butter or any yogurt for their Indian meal. I was puzzled by this.
It seems to me if that is the case, he can’t win long term. If you eat very low carb, you have to eat fat. Low carb and low fat is not sustainable. It’s starvation.
Trigger warning: DIET-RELATED POST!
In the latest test of low-carb versus low-fat, the result is…. a tie. I’ll let Dr Richard Lehman comment:
“In this 12-month weight loss diet study, there was no significant difference in weight change between a healthy low-fat diet vs a healthy low-carbohydrate diet, and neither genotype pattern nor baseline insulin secretion was associated with the dietary effects on weight loss. In the context of these two common weight loss diet approaches, neither of the two hypothesized predisposing factors was helpful in identifying which diet was better for whom.”
“This beautifully clear summary of the DIETFITS trial will please nobody. Carb-haters will argue that they used the wrong fats and that the timescale and the surrogate markers were all wrong; fat haters will no doubt use the same arguments turned on their head. I would be perfectly happy except that they use the word “healthy” to describe these diets. Not working for the marketing department of a supermarket, I don’t know what that means.”
Abstract (full text behind paywall): https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2673150?redirect=true
It bears out what I maintain: If your diet provides the essential vitamins and nutrients (including those unknown to science), it doesn’t matter much whether the bulk of your calories comes from carbs or fat. The question of whether a diet is healthy or unhealthy is independent of the macronutrient ratio. You can get lust as sick on junky LCHF as on junky HCLF.
Link for the Lehman article: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2018/02/26/richard-lehmans-journal-review-26-february-2018/
http://sci-hub.hk/10.1001/jama.2018.0245
Chris Gardner is a vegan, or at least a vegetarian. I was impressed by his previous study – ATOZ – in the references, because despite his bias he reported that the Atkins diet was best on several criteria.
He has not made the same mistake twice. Anecdotally (N=thousands) LCHF diets almost invariably improve blood glucose, insulin, trigs, HDL and blood pressure, not to mention weight loss. When this fails to occur in studies, IMO they have been knobbled.
The good thing about this one is that low carb looks no worse than low fat. However it will be interpreted as “low fat is better just because”.
IMO low fat probably works as long as your metabolism has not been broken. This no longer applies to the majority of the population.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4
15:30 – 16:00
The Food Programme
Eat to Run, Part 3
Dan Saladino meets the runners convinced low or no carbs is the way to peak performance.
KidPsych
Thanks for that link. I’ll try to go through and find the rest. I like Jason Fung a lot. He’s a medical sleuth like our Dr. K here. I didn’t realize he has delved pretty deeply into cancer as well.
CHIP cells
“Cause or association?”
I keep scrolling up and down on this interesting topic and I’m having trouble even with the translations!
I can’t understand if:
1. it’s an age related problem and irritates/damages the arteries and triggers the plaque formation process (a la homocysteine levels increase with age) or
2. it’s part of healing process/plaque band aid (along with substances like lp(a) and cholesterol and calcium)?
Or is the science/research itself not sure?
Thinking out loud…rhetorically…
Are the scabs which form on our skins to heal cuts as complex as arterial plaque?
I bet getting tested for levels is not possible outside of research labs. It would be interesting for those of us who have had a CVD incident or arterial plaque.
Charles, yes the researchers are using language which expresses a desire to avoid being dumped on by the Cholesterol fanatics…
In fact since July 2017, this research has been ignored by the CVD medical profession. Maybe because of being blind to new thinking & maybe also because it doe snot offer any immediate new cure.. As it is still early days.
But I think this research fills in a link in the chain of causation…That’s an improvement on the previous situation.
Dr K, any thoughts on this ?
Anything that makes people question the cholesterol hypothesis is good. But if I tried to chase down, and analyse, every ‘new’ thing discovered that may, or may not be causal in CVD, I could do nothing else in my life.
So perhaps our comments & elucidations here, winnow the great mass of them somewhat ?
I have, for once, posted something about Vitamins where it belongs, at the end of the “What causes …. pt 45” blog entry.
It’s about The Woo’s love hate relationship with Vitamin D.
Please visit and comment once it has been moderated.
Thanks
Though I know this piece isn’t directed at statins, I discovered some interesting information regarding the links between Danone, the French multinational food-products corporation, and the Indian pharmaceutical company Wockhardt, which produces Atorvastatin the world’s best-selling drug.
Here in Spain Danone is chiefly known through its TV advertisements for low-fat yoghurts and their cholesterol-reducing properties. In 2011 Danone acquired, what was described in the press as “the nutritional business of Indian pharmaceutical company Wockhardt”. I was gob-smacked.
What I find disturbing about these sort of global partnerings is the potential for subliminal suggestion in advertising. As an example, I can only refer to Danone’s latest low-fat yoghurt advertising in Spain, simply because I live here.
In the latest campaign, Danone features a father seemingly bursting with good health. He is shown with his young daughter around the age of eleven or twelve. The implicit suggestion is that the father is most likely to be below the age forty. So we can clearly see the intended target. The cholesterol reducing qualities of the yoghurt are heavily emphasised, suggesting even the healthiest males should be very aware of their cholesterol intake. Even if one can’t find fault with that, when a father and his family are made to start thinking about cholesterol levels, a good few will consider a visit to the doctor to find out what they actually are. And there’s where the real problem starts.
As so government medical agencies throughout the world are recommending that most of the population should be on statins by the age of forty, there is little doubt in my mind, many doctors under heavy seduction from pharmaceutical companies will prescribe statins as a preventative measure, even when their patients’ cholesterol levels are below, or even well below, the recommended levels. There arises a very clear case of a potential conflict of interest in the case of Danone and Wockhardt.
It must be fairly obvious that a food company producing a low-fat yoghurt, advertised solely on the basis it reduces cholesterol – rather than because tastes nice or has any nutritional value – associated with a pharmaceutical company manufacturing the most profitable drug in the world, and which is prescribed solely to reduce cholesterol, should have its practices subjected to very close scrutiny. Indeed, Wockhardt has been in trouble with the US Food and Drug Administration over other concerns more than once.
I think it will come as no surprise the potential cardiovascular benefits of regular yoghurt consumption don’t derive from cholesterol lowering.
It’s simple and cheap to make your own whole milk yoghurt and it tastes better.
Yogurt and Cardiometabolic Diseases: A Critical Review of Potential Mechanisms
https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/8/6/812/4772177
Ted,
Personally I avoid whey protein containing milk products because of whey’s insulinogenic effects. I’m particularly sensitive to insulin spikes and am possibly biologically more prone to such spikes.
I’m not trying to be critical of home made yogurt just trying to add a piece of information to your post which I believe to be correct and which may be of interest to some folks.
Phil
Renfrew, PA USA
To add to Philip’s experience, I have no idea how it does it, but live yoghurt gives me vivid dreams verging on claustrophobic nightmares. Not always, but often enough to be sure it is the yoghurt and nothing else.
They all have links to each other.
An interesting one concerns Prof. Exley and his studies that have found that drinking a mineral water with a high silicic acid content removes Aluminium from the human body – with some interesting initial tests on patients with AD. One of the mineral waters that has this effect is Volvic and he approached them for sponsorship of his research department on the strength of this. Volvic were pleased to help and things progressed well until Head Office got to hear what the Volvic division was doing and summarily cut the funds. Head Office is Danone.
Bryan…thank you for this info…what an awful way of pressurising otherwise healthy people to investigate if they ‘require’ toxic, lucrative statins. …..well of course they will need the statins….anyone with blood flowing through their body these days will fall above the ridiculously low ‘statins required’ threshold.
How do these big companies dream up such horrible ideas?
Subject them to scrutiny from whom? Lots of people might think the combination perfectly rational. I mean, cholesterol should be reduced, right? Governments everywhere agree!
Reading your comment reminded me of the old Puritan Cooking Oil ads in the 1970’s and John Houseman’s schoolmaster voice proclaiming, “Noooooooooo cho-LES-trahl!”
We seem to have said all that can be said about the Vendetta against Tim Noakes.
So perhaps another Off topic comment can be noted. This link is an interview with an Australian female cardiologist based in Perth. There is the odd ‘positive’ remark about cholesterol and stains which I am sure we all know how to ignore or dismiss.
But most of the 50 minute interview is about how emotional stress – such as happens with the death of a partner or the ending of a relationship – can lead to heart attacks.
http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-nikki-stamp/9468488
I think it was the Nobel laureate of literature Imre Kertész who claimed that it is our duty to be happy.
Or else?
With his ordeal background it is surely an amazing statement. I take it as a fighting attitude of “survival” against all odds. Perhaps my own, Noakes and yours?
Or else we just surrender?
I was making an ironic reply to the statement that it is our ‘duty’ to be happy. If someone told my that it was my duty to be happy I would salute. It brings to mind an old saying from the Royal Navy in the UK. ‘Flogging will continue until morale improves.’
Perhaps there is a problem with the translation of the word duty. In UK English, it means something that you must do – or else. It is a order, not a request. I feel that ordering someone to be happy rather misses the point.
Maybe too off-topic, but perhaps germane to an overarching theme of misplaced acceptance of the expertise of doctors – a good friend of mine, a highly respected and capable psychologist (yes, they exist), has been involved in sexual harassment litigation against a major managed care company run by doctors. The more he tells me about the inner-workings of the company, one builds a clear mental picture of unbridled arrogance. I can’t give up details because it’s in active litigation, but, even as someone with a skeptical opinion of MD’s in general, I am astonished at the depths to which a group of doctors dropped ethically and morally. Truly eye opening. It’s as if they never thought anyone would make judgment on scandalously horrible ethical breaches.
Good write up on cholesterol. Some quotes – there was research published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that covered about 350,000 people in a follow-up period of five to 23 years. And there was no relationship at all between saturated fat intake and heart disease. what they didn’t realize back in the ’60s when they were doing those studies [was the difference between omega-3 and omega-6]; they thought all polyunsaturated fats were the same, so they would lump them together in the studies. If you don’t eat enough cholesterol, your body will make more it’s not the amount of cholesterol that is the main risk factor for heart disease, rather it’s the number of cholesterol-carrying LDL particles. Oxidized LDL can also be a greater risk factor for heart disease. Oxidized LDL is more harmful than normal non-oxidized LDL because it’s smaller and denser. This allows it to penetrate the lining of your arteries, where it will stimulate plaque formation associated with heart disease. T3 hormone (which is the most active form of thyroid hormone) is required to activate the LDL receptor, which is what takes LDL out of the circulation. statin drugs CANNOT address insulin or leptin resistance, and they do NOT affect particle size or particle number. https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/04/28/nmr-lipoprofile.aspx
Randal, that Dr Mercola article was written in April 2013. The advice it gives is still good. But it has still failed to change the general paradigm out there in ‘medico-land’. Just as Dr K’s blog’s have unfortunately also failed to change ‘medico-land”.
Perhaps a change of approach is needed. I am reminded of France in the 1760’s when the government was trying to encourage peasants to grow potatoes to make up for a deficiency in the wheat crop. Resistance was near universal !
Then someone had a bright idea : plant a potato crop in a big walled garden with guards to ‘prevent’ theft of the crop. But have the guards were sent off for a mug of wine, a feed & a sleep at night. Result ? Wholesale theft of the secret potato crop which were then planted and grown. And spuds became part of the french national cuisine.
So ….. Let’s form an international secret ‘”No CVD Society” ! And only allow ‘No CVD’ information to be granted to people who are members. Gosh Dr K could even charge a modest fee for membership and maybe retire from the stressful wok he currently does with the UK NHS.
🙂
Dr K has often commented on the danger of keeping failed ideas alive by adding more and more hypotheses. I am not a medical scientist, so I look at this mess from the outside, and just see the chains of hypotheses!
I mean some of these studies looked at LDL levels (as well as total cholesterol) and there was no relation with overall mortality (well a slight trend in the ‘wrong’ direction).
http://vernerwheelock.com/179-cholesterol-and-all-cause-mortality/
The concept that LDL is bad seems to have been spawned as an extra hypothesis to save the idea that heart disease was caused by cholesterol, and perhaps the concept that oxidised LDL is the real danger, is itself another hypothesis added to the heap to solve the ‘problem’ that LDL doesn’t seem dangerous!
Also, I have to wonder just how much genuinely hard evidence there is for many of the statements made here regarding diet. I mean, what worries me, is that the concept that LDL/HDL is the vital indicator of heart problems, or indeed saturated fat consumption, is supposedly believed on the basis of scientific evidence – even though we accept that as wrong!
So although I do take omega-3 supplements, I do wonder how reliable is the evidence that these are beneficial, or that omega-6 is harmful. Indeed, I take a far more sceptical view of a great deal of science than before!
Suppose the truth is that most people can manage fine on a range of diets, and that the dominant danger is stress – which seems to be what Dr K has been saying all along!
Maybe if saturated fat were called stable lipid, it would not be demonized so often.
Cue vegans complaining this means eating horses
On the continuing cholesterol epicycles, I think it was Peter at Hyperlipid who opined that the really dangerous kind was sky blue pink cholesterol with polka dots.
IMO the various lipid levels are indicators of processes which may have other causal elements. Chemical (in)stability of various foods may be a crucial factor, along with all the not-food additives. Systems break down when driven outside of their operating parameters.
Smartersig, re sat fat causing insulin resistance:
Somehow, I only get a reply button on the first level, and after that no more. So I had to move down to the bottom here.
I’m just now reading a multi series by Jason Fung on his website about insulin resistance. He has much to say but I think a very salient point is that if you eat high carbs in the context of a simple eating plan with no snacking, you’ll be alright. Basically, he says, development of insulin resistance requires 2 things: High levels of insulin and constant exposure. This may be a missing piece of the puzzle as to why American kids are so fat now. Sure, the food is rot, but they also snack all day between meals and before bed. Adults too, of course. And it was more bad advice – keep your blood sugar steady by eating 6 small meals a day. Sure way to develop insulin resistance.
Excellent point AnnaM. The ‘no snacking’ regime message has finally got through to me this year. Until now I believed that ‘little and often’ , even of good food, was the way to maintain stable glucose and insulin levels. I feel that the ‘stability’ issue is a red herring….because our bodies actually need intervals of low glucose and low insulin levels, hence my newly acknowledged belief in periods of fasting, even if just for 12-18 hours.
I notice this in spades when I walk round the local nature reserve. Fat people (and their fat kids) start by visiting the cafe, then walk round half the reserve clutching their snacks and energy drinks, then return to the cafe to carb up before walking the other half.
Meanwhile I eat a small breakfast, just enough to convince my liver and pancreas that my throat has not been cut, then spend the rest of the day living off stored energy until I finally have my meal(s) anything from 6 to 11 hours later.
Back when I was also a high carber I also had to carb up every few hours to avoid falling over.
Obviously the dieticians who are persecuting Tim Noakes realise that if everyone did this it would adversely affect the profits of their sponsors.
I think there could be some truth in the snacking idea. If he is talking about high carb as in the typical US diet then this is not the kind of diet I am eating. All high carb diets are not the same as all high fat diets are not the same
Signed some time ago. And I don’t usually do things like that.
Bill in Oz – secret potato garden
Reminds me of the Latin poet Martial who wrote epigrams about 2000 years ago, with a few on a similar theme (about wives). Here’s a translation of epigram 73:
“There was no one in the whole town willing to touch your wife, Caecilianus…but now you have set your guards, there is a huge crowd of gallants”.
Methinks he also had a hidden agenda !
Certainly I do with my suggestion of a secret “NO CVD Society”
🙂
Doc,
“Insulin resistance.”
The term is bandied about by ostensibly smart people. It always seemed to describe what those people thought was happening adequately. Everybody’s wrong?
How would you describe what’s happening – in your own understanding at this time?
Insulin resistance is a term that only exists due to circular logic.
This person is insulin resistant
How do you know
Well they have a high insulin level and a high sugar level, so they must be resistant to the effects of insulin
What if something else is causing both the high insulin level and the high blood sugar level?
Yes, yes . . . and what might that be, causing both? Clue? (I’m at a loss here, myself.)
JDPattern,
Aha, we are getting closer to an important question, I believe.
What causes continued Insulin Resistance when LCHF has improved just about everything else?
That is, what is the root cause(s) of IR
——–
in blog 45b I proposed a thought and a question (abridged):
“… But, notwithstanding LCHF I believe I am still Insulin Resistant = Trigs elevated, ApoB high, HDL-C / ApoA too low, usCRP not low enough. All these (indirect) IR markers, except for ApoB, are sort of ok but not good enough. …
If anybody has any ideas to share as to which what supplements, or lifestyle, or actions that I can test (n=1) to lower my Insulin Resistance while on LCHF (with daily intermittent fasting) I would be really grateful. I will give them a try.
Apparently (per Prof Noakes) about 30% of those who convert to LCHF may not get the lipid markers that they should/expect. I appear to be 1 of the 30%.”
——–
As Dr Kendrick states “Well they have a high insulin level and a high sugar level, so they must be resistant to the effects of insulin” However, in my case, I have a low sugar level because of near Keto LCHF (also good HbA1C) but indications that I am still IR.
And JDPattern asks: “…and what might that be, causing both?”
Quoting Prof Noakes: “Insulin Resistance is the single most important medical condition in global medicine”.
Anybody with any ideas?
In my case Dr Kendrick, HbA1c blood sugar increased from 44 to 47 after a 3 month course of 20mg statins per day and returned to the base figure after ceasing. I do understand that association does not prove causation but have read that there is a connection between statin consumption and the onset of D type 2
Perhaps cells prefer fat as an energy source, and there is fat circulating as well as sugar and insulin. Then the sugar would stay high until the fat was used up, no matter what the insulin level. (No idea if this is correct, or even possible.)
Prof. Unger has another take on the insulin resistance and the blood sugar control. He does not deny insulin resistance but claims that the alfa cells in the pancreas of T2D do not properly respond to the insulin produced in the adjacent beta cells (after a carb rich meal) by shutting down the production of glucagon and this lack of response keeps the glucose generation in the liver running and blood sugar high. He thus sees the glucagon as the key to the understanding of blood sugar control.
This is a lecture which might shake established views.
You might need to watch the lecture a couple of times absorb all that is in it.
Maybe altered gut microbiota….https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1521691813000619
Yes! And the function of “insulin resistance” dictates that it should take on different values in different tissues, and vary over time. In much the same way that Dave Feldman’s research
http://www.cholesterolcode.com
shows just how much and how rapidly LDL levels change when manipulated by diet.
It all falls over when things that should be flexible get stiff (and as you age, the opposite also happens)
Hi Robert, my markers in the areas you have mentioned are excellent. My achilles heels or at least the ones I have discovered so far are that my Homocysteine was high, now good after supplementing B12 and folate. Also my T3 thyroid was low, now in OK range after supp’ing Sea Iodine. So what is my suggestion, well I try to to eat a nil simple carb’s plant based diet (fish allowed) with mono fats from nuts etc. No bread pasta cakes etc. I eat fruit, quite a bit actually. I dont know if this fits the Eco Atkins diet but I would imagine its close. My suggestion is that you give it a try and see what happens. It can still be high fat so you will not be deserting that method totally. Google eco atkins for further details. I would be fascinated to hear how you get on
TedHutchinson : Thanks fpr giving us the link http://scienceandpublic.com/
I did not know about this website. So I have book marked it for future use when some ‘scientific’ article writer tries to baffle my brain with incomprehensible jargon. Good work !
Clicking on Richard Feinman in the comments takes you to a short youtube video that goes through the Professor Roger Unger lecture.
Thank you for this alert. Very illuminating! This is truly revolutionary thinking regarding diabetes.
First of course you need to watch Ungers lecture.
Maybe heart issues (and so many other disease states) are so much more complicated than thought. The gut biome might play a bigger role than anyone thought?
Association Study of Gut Flora in Coronary Heart Disease through High-Throughput Sequencinghttps://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2017/3796359/
Hi Dave Lull Re your comment “Petro Dobromylskyj took a detailed look at “ultra low fat” eating and “Denise Minger’s idea of ‘carbosis’”
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2015/10/protons-and-ultra-low-fat-once-more.html
Yes this is a real, thoughtful and sensible article and discussion with Denise Minger making comments. Thanks for reminding me about it.
The discussion also provides an excellent example of how to achieve progress in such an issue.
Where does this leave people who are not T2 Diabetics ?. Does anyone have links to long term data/studies on LCHF diets on people who start out ‘healthy’. What about the argument, which seems to be endorsed in this report, that we are asking the wrong question. Should we be asking what diet is best for any individual. Also as one comment mentioned does LCHF correct T2 or just band aid it ?
Lowering blood sugar is lowering blood sugar. As type II diabetes is diagnosed by having a high blood sugar then, you could say, you have cured it. In my view, you have done nothing of the sort. Something must have caused the high blood sugar, and it is that something we need to be looking to treat. This view puts me in a minority of one.
Dr. K. A minority of two, actually.
Oh there’s more of us! IME I have never had a proper Phase 1 insulin response (a recent study points to a gene deletion that affects GLP-1 which is the relay that switches the insulin on and off). I doubt that will grow back any time soon. Yet more than sixty years later my Phase 2 insulin is still good.
OTOH I used to have massive insulin resistance (trigs/HDL was nearly seven and it now routinely less than unity) so the insulin I do produce goes a lot further. On occasion I can eat a surprising amount of carbs, mainly in the evening, but I am convinced that if I did it other than occasionally the IR would come back.
However eating the government recommended 230 – 300g carbs is completely out of the question. I find it entertaining to consider that we are effectively told to take three glucose tolerance tests every day.
That is exactly my point Dr Kendrick, HFLC does lower blood sugar but does it solve the underlying problem. Even one poster on here is saying it does not in his case as he is still has insulin resistance.
I was asked about the two studies and their content. Dr Kendrick has already mentioned what the clamp is so coming back to the first study. It revolves around intramyocellular lipid (IMCL) content. It seems that higher levels go hand in hand with insulin resistance.
They tested IMCL levels first with infusion of Intralipid plus heparin.used to promote insulin levels IMCL levels started to increase significantly after 2 h, reaching a maximum of 120.8 ± 3.4% (SOL) and 164.2 ± 13.8% (TA) of baseline after 6 h (both P < 0.05). The IMCL was strongly correlated with glucose infusion rate. In other words as IMCL went up they needed less glucose infusion because the stuff is hanging around.
So this was used as test baseline I guess
They then tested people after 3 days of high fat diet.
"In the diet protocol, 12 male subjects ingested both a high-fat and low-fat diet for 3 days each. Before and after completion of each diet, IMCL levels and insulin sensitivity were assessed. After the high-fat diet, IMCL levels increased significantly in TA muscle (to 148.0 ± 16.9% of baseline; P = 0.005), but not in SOL muscle (to 114.4 ± 8.2% of baseline; NS). Insulin sensitivity decreased to 83.3 ± 5.6% of baseline (P = 0.033). There were no significant changes in insulin sensitivity or IMCL levels after the low-fat diet. The effects of the high-fat diet showed greater inter individual variation than those of the infusion protocol. The data from the lipid infusion protocol suggest a functional relationship between IMCL levels and insulin sensitivity. Similar effects could be induced by a high-fat diet, thereby underlining the physiological relevance of these observations."
So what they are saying is the high fat diet sent IMCL up implying insulin sensitivity dropped (Bad!) whereas the low fat diet showed no changes
Now here is some possible good news for the LCHF diet people
"The diets were designed by a study dietitian to represent extremes of Western nutritional habits, defined as follows: 1) high-fat diet: high in calories, high in fat (55–60% of energy intake, predominantly saturated fat), and low in carbohydrates (30–35%) and protein (11–16%), with total energy intake of 2,667–2,943 kcal/day; and 2) low-fat diet: normal range of calories, low in saturated fat (18–23%), and high in carbohydrates (62–64% of energy intake) with 16–18% protein and fiber, with total energy intake of 1,901–2,125 kcal/day. On average, the total energy intake was 767 kcal/day lower than with the high-fat diet. The diets consisted of commonly available food items (e.g., pizza, pasta). No alcohol was permitted during the study period. "
You could argue that the fat content was not high enough in the same way that LFHC people will argue that the low fat was not low enough. Maybe it would change the results especially if you are a Denise Minger swampland occupier (thats not a detrimental comment in case you have not read her report). On the other hand it could make things worse, who knows. Lets face it Pzza pasta is high carb but not the sort of carb I would go far or other carb eaters.
Thank you for looking at the study in more detail.
No problem, perhaps an analogy might help. Think of a plate spinner (circus act) with one plate on a spindle. Spinning the plate and keeping it at a constant speed requires pushing/action from the spinner to overcome friction from the spindle and the plate. This is rather like glucose and insulin working together and being maintained at a constant rate, the spinner does the same to keep the plate spinning. When a high fat diet is fed the plate flies off the stick, it no longer can be kept in a constant state with the same amount of push from the spinner (glucose infusion), it requires less spinning to keep it in a constant state of rotation.
Is this how we eat, well no of course not, but is it evidence along with other studies that make me ask questions of sat fat, hell yes. Do I need to eat sat fat when there are an abundance of avocados out here, hell no.
“Something must have caused the high blood sugar, and it is that something we need to be looking to treat. This view puts me in a minority of one.”
In my case I found out the cause of the high blood sugar by doing what the most recent junior cardiologist told me I should not do. I read the leaflet. I was taking a thiazide, which had ceased to lower my blood pressure. Prescribed by the same GP who was telling me I was seroiusly Type II diabetic. I dumped the pills and was cured. My presnt GP has tried at least three times to clear the diagnosis out of the computer system but I am not sure whether he has succeeded yet.
I do try to do my bit – in the waiting room with a crowd waiting for their retinopathy photos, I just happened to remark “Of course, you do know that statins cause diabetes . . .” Give them something to think about.
“Lowering blood sugar is lowering blood sugar. As type II diabetes is diagnosed by having a high blood sugar then, you could say, you have cured it. In my view, you have done nothing of the sort. Something must have caused the high blood sugar, and it is that something we need to be looking to treat. This view puts me in a minority of one.”
My very rudimentary understanding is that the LCHF diet only treats T2 and doesn’t cure it. Maybe I’m wrong but thought one common cause of T2 has to do with a years’ long high carb diet requiring near constant insulin release to manage blood sugar. As the pancreas wears out and over time produces less insulin blood sugar and A1C rises into T2 diagnostic range. I know in my case this is a fairly accurate description of events. Overindulgence of sugary carb heavy goodies..metabolic syndrome…LCHF diet and intermittent fasting…no longer have sugar issues while enjoying many positives.
Jean, you are so right. I, too, pointed out to my GP ( whom I worked with )that the B/P meds he prescribed for me were the likely cause of my raised blood glucose, ( shown up on the blood tests which I had then been ensnared into). He decided to swap me onto another B/P tablet. So, then, lots of hypoglycaemics, because I was labelled diabetic; then came the statins ( (because I was classed as a diabetic!) and on and on it went…..10 years of misery…..then boomph! Enough was enough….off all the pills, off all the tests, and I will repeat my tale until the cows come home, because it worked for me.
Other folks will have to work out what suits them.
Hi hOwdid you manage to get off the boys meds. How high was your bp. Would like to get off mine
Hi biddy99, check out MSM as a source of sulphur compounds in addition to cruciferous veggies. My BP has gone down 10 points since adding MSM a week ago. Other factors like food choices and meal spacing also can affect BP. In my case 78 is the now the new playing field.
Thanks Andy. Where do you get yours from. Do you take capsules or powder and how much? Are you n bp meds
biddy99, purchased MSM powder in local health food store. Stuff has bitter taste so I combine 1/2 teaspoon MSM powder ( 1 gram) with juice of 1 lemon and 1/2 teaspoon baking soda in large of water.
Check out this website for foods containing sulphur compounds: http://www.immunehealthscience.com/sulfur-foods.html
Looks like animal proteins rule.
Thanks. Where you on bp meds
biddy99, no I do not take any bp meds or any other med. My gp would like to introduce me to statins and bp meds. I do not want to become a patient. The question is what would taking a pill for bp cure? The body senses blood flow and makes adjustments as required via NO and kidneys. Adequate blood flow if important. I do my part as well by eating sensibly.
biddy99. My GP would not countenance me coming off any medication. I was fortunate to have a consultation with a forward-thinking endocrinologist who had access to 10 years of my medical history. He advised that my antihypertensive was at least twice that which I ought to have, and to reduce it immediately, with the aim to withdraw completely. He recommended I withdraw all 3 hypoglycaemics, but perhaps continue with 25% of the dose of Metformin…( i.e. 500mg) and to ‘please myself’ regarding the high dose statins. Hardly an endorsement of the regime I had been taking for about 10 years. So, I came off the lot, including the Metformin. I have not discussed this with any doctors since, and pleased to say, I live to tell MY tale.
Others must decide how they approach their situation.
P.s. I have had a busy day….up before dawn. Round car trip of 180 miles. 2 hours dismantling a couple of chickens to freeze the boned flesh and prepare the veggies to make 24 hour bone broth. Finally sitting down to enjoy telly drama, with a glass of dry white and aged Gouda, after a day of low carb, high fat food over 2 meals. B/P? = 130/85…. at age 70… Don’t tell the docs…..I will be expected to go back on the meds….no way!!!!
Thanks Jennifer. Did you wean yourself of the bp meds and how long did it take. Did you find you bp shot up to start with. How high was it when your go put you on them?
Biddy. It is 20 years since my saga began….my GPs did 24 hour tapes, but when the tapes did not show any problem, and the GPs would not accept white-coat hypertension as the cause, they obviously felt the need to prescribe something, and I complied. I recall being on holiday in an hotel in London…complete with meds and B/P machine, and recording 90/60…( I felt fearful, and in my heart I knew back then that I had no need for the medication). On returning home, my GP would not compromise. Fast track to 5 years ago when the consultant agreed with me. So, no, I really do not know what my B/P ever was to warrant treatment, except that it shot up in the hour before I went for endless tests at the surgery,( at the time I was on the meds), and returned to normal when at home. I monitored at home for years, and that pattern continued, but no one would listen to me.I have never bothered doing readings for 5 years now, and it was only out of sheer interest that I recorded it last evening prior to responding to you. I have said on these blogs previously, I really do not accept that I was truly hypertensive , in the terms of being ill, but, yes, my B/P was raised at times of stress…surely though, ……that is the usual state of affairs, is it not? Big Pharma would prefer not to acknowledge that fact, as it doesn’t call for medication.
For a follow-up to the change.org petition, here is the route to get your oar in, https://www.nutritioncoalition.us/2018/03/06/how-to-submit-a-public-comment-on-the-dietary-guidelines/. There you can comment on the forthcoming nutritional guidelines. In reality I don’t know how much effect this will have as there will be huge pressure and advice from outfits with only money or power as their driver.
I am not at all a fan of Tim Noakes HFLC diet but I am deeply angry about the behaviour of so called ‘authorities’ and their intent to cull any voice that is not their own. The American Medical Associations behaviour is far beyond what Tim Noakes is enduring in the comic world of South African authority. Health has never had a ‘one size fits all’ solution and we need to be constantly pushing the envelope – we need people like Tim to challenge the status quo even if we don’t agree.
For those who haven’t heard https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/national/health/2018-06-08-tim-noakes-is-finally-free-and-clear-after-winning-banting-diet-advice-case/
I had written more but in finding the above link, my reply vanished. I’m pleased at the outcome, no perhaps the Australians will see sense for Gary Fettke, but I won’t be holding my breath.
I’m sure Dr Kendrick knows this already, but here’s some excellent news about Tim Noakes – he’s finally off the hook!!
https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2018-06-08-its-finally-over-says-relieved-banting-guru-noakes/
Yes, this is good news. Until the authorities try again – and I wouldn’t put it past them
Hello,
Would anyone (also including Dr MK), know of good references of any RCT(s) clinically proving very low carbohydrate diet effective in diabetes type 2 patients as assessed with patient oriented outcomes ?
Pubmed did’nt help me much so far.
Thank you
Dr David Unwin has done work in the area, published.
Thanks.
But Pubmed retrieves only this with a request that should work:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=(Unwin+d+%5BAuthor%5D)+AND+diabetes
A Duckduckgo search did find a few things but it lled to only one RCT (not blinded as it is not possible to blind the patient but not blinded to investigators) which is really small . Which raises the risk the effect be much less (Ioannidis).
And also anecdotes or experience. Which are certainly not negligible. But ….
https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h4023.full?ijkey=AN2nBwW6h3wuQJK&keytype=ref
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=480845
http://diabetestimes.co.uk/big-interview-dr-david-unwin/
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb-doctors-introduction
https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-5-36
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=480845
This is not reaching the level of evidence I’d wish to see.
I’m a “believer” in the low carb diet (it makes so much sense) but I can’t get out of my sweet addiction and would like to see “high strength evidence”. For motivation. And to feel confident and correct when advising it.
Also found this :
Effect of a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet on blood glucose control in people with type 2 diabetes.
Gannon MC Diabetes. 2004;53(9):2375.
8 patients 8 weeks cross over study.
Cholesterol unchanged !!! (I’m pulling every one’s leg)
Very short and small study.
Effect of a low-carbohydrate diet on appetite, blood glucose levels, and insulin resistance in obese patients with type 2 diabetes.
Boden G. Ann Intern Med. 2005;142(6):403.
10 patients over 7 days normal diet 14 days LC diet.
Value : poor evidence
The metabolic response to a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet in men with type 2 diabetes mellitus.
Nuttall F . Metabolism. 2006;55(2):243.
Very small and short
Well so I’m still in search of the nice convincing study that would support my belief.
pedrinhdeazucar, what is the belief that you want support for?
Hi Andy,
The belief I have that low/very low carbohydrate diets can control diabetes or help control diabetes with no or less medicines.
I’d like to be able to quote RCT(s) with patient oriented outcomes. Something clinically significant.
Absent this kind of proof, it will be hard to preach.
I need that to change my belief into knowledge.
Eat what you want/healthy just in smaller portions, exercise more and quit sugar and the then you will see the miracle happen. We know doctors aren’t God but they are blessed in saving peoples lives and they always strive their best but, What works for one might not work for the other because everyone is different.Then there is one thing that’s true too much of one thing can be a bad thing so balance is vital.